Why would you think that?!How can this happen? Surely if someone dies, their records in the Department of Social Protection are updated and the dole is then not paid to dead people?
I think you might be onto something there! I'm thinking a unique string that could identify someone. Maybe we could go with your name and call it a PPS number? It could be used for a plethora of things come to think of it...Why would you think that?!
We'd have to have some sort of a Personal Public Services number or some such thing for that to work...
Yea, like a unique patient identifier in all hospitals.I think you might be onto something there! I'm thinking a unique string that could identify someone. Maybe we could go with your name and call it a PPS number? It could be used for a plethora of things come to think of it...
How can this happen? Surely if someone dies, their records in the Department of Social Protection are updated and the dole is then not paid to dead people?
Would a national ID system really help? Last time I looked, the €60 million Public Services Card project has saved us €2 million or €3 million in fraud, which seems like a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.In theory once the GRO is notified of a death they send it to DSP to stop any payments. This process is probably not perfect, as there can be issues with use of middle names, maiden names, old addresses etc. It may have been done manually in the past as well and things fell through the cracks.
If you were setting up a welfare system from scratch tomorrow it would involve payments by bank transfer and nothing else. It would cut down on fraud but that's not where we are starting from.
There is the "social inclusion" argument that the poor are not very capable and it is just simplest to let them wander into their local post office once a week. I am sympathetic to this. Not having a national ID system makes fraud much easier too.
In cases like this I often wonder how much the post office staff knew. In these cases often the son has the same first name as the deceased father but you'd wonder how he got away with claiming the mother's pension too.......
Is that easily done? Would the doctor or Gardai or hospital have any role here?I presume it is easily done if you don't register the death? Hence the state has no formal record of a person dying and nothing gets passed to the DSP.
The ID card could be used for many other things as well but we already have a unique identifier; our PPS number. Why's that not just added to the Death Cert?Would a national ID system really help? Last time I looked, the €60 million Public Services Card project has saved us €2 million or €3 million in fraud, which seems like a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Yes. It cuts down on lots of opportunity for fraud and reduces error. I know someone only in her 40s who has (and claims to use) two PPS numbers.Would a national ID system really help?
What would the national ID system provide on top of the current Public Services Card to reduce fraud? Maybe a better option would be for you to report your contact with the two PPS numbers rather than building a whole new system at a cost of tens or hundreds of millions?Yes. It cuts down on lots of opportunity for fraud and reduces error. I know someone only in her 40s who has (and claims to use) two PPS numbers.
A national ID system exists in lots of European countries and the sky doesn't cave in.
Where you have ambiguity or duplication you provide for the possibility of fraud.What would the national ID system provide on top of the current Public Services Card to reduce fraud?
Something like the MyGovID perhaps?Where you have ambiguity or duplication you provide for the possibility of fraud.
I would develop the PSC into something where everyone has a unique profile (with address via eircode) that is used for a range of state services. No more data entry when you want to pay motor tax, register for a school, go to hospital.
An obligation to update your address as well would make it easier as well to cut down on fraud. Whenever this is mooted all sorts of spurious civil liberties issues are raised, and none of the practical benefits ever pointed to.
Ideally there would be only one system!HSE IT are also working on the single health identifier too.
Sure, you need to have adequate safeguards in place to prevent breaches and restrict access. Having multiple non-connected databases is one way of doing this, but probably not the most efficient.There are real questions about how our data is shared and managed though. Government data breaches are not that unusual, as we've seen with the HSE, Aardhar in India, US voter records, Swedish transportation agency and more.
Is that easily done? Would the doctor or Gardai or hospital have any role here?
Just curious, are there many cases of deaths NOT certified by a doctor? Is that even legal? Would an undertaker proceed with burial without a doctor's cert?What should happen is the Doctor or Hospital should fill out a Death Notification form (certifying the death) which is then used by the next of kin to register the death. However, if someone died at home of natural causes and no doctor was called to certify death and they were not getting treated by a doctor, then it would and could be easy enough to not register the death. In effect, if no one knows you are dead........
Alternatively, I don't know if anyone checks to see if a Death notification form has been linked to a registered death or not.
It is a legal requirement that a death is registered in this country. A doctor must sign the form. If they cannot determine the cause of death a Postmortem must be carried out.What should happen is the Doctor or Hospital should fill out a Death Notification form (certifying the death) which is then used by the next of kin to register the death. However, if someone died at home of natural causes and no doctor was called to certify death and they were not getting treated by a doctor, then it would and could be easy enough to not register the death. In effect, if no one knows you are dead........
Alternatively, I don't know if anyone checks to see if a Death notification form has been linked to a registered death or not.
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