Made redundant after 15 yrs. Just discovered I was not in pension, but I thought I was

anbodearg

Registered User
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19
Being made redundant, and just discovered after 15 years I was not part of the company pension scheme (US International).
According to my contract signed in 2007 it was condition of employment, and I was signed up to a 'risk-only insurance' pension.
But I wasn't part of the main pension.

There is no record of me asking to join the pension.
There is no record of me being offered to join the pension
There is no record of me asking *not* to join the pension.

Is there anything I can do?
 
Is there any record of you contributing to the pension?
 
Sorry to hear you have been made redundant. Hope you get a decent severance package. I am just curious as to why you didn't notice that there were no deductions from your payslip for your pension? Most pension schemes require a deduction of at least 5/6% of salary?
 
anbodearg said:
According to my contract signed in 2007 it was condition of employment, and I was signed up to a 'risk-only insurance' pension.
Click to expand...
So if I understand correctly your contract made reference to a pension scheme but your employer never made deductions?

Does your contract make reference to the contribution rate?
 
The payslip is PDF and pin protected.
I did have the pin once but forgot it.
I used to just check the balance in my Bank account instead
NoRegretsCoyote said:
So if I understand correctly your contract made reference to a pension scheme but your employer never made deductions?

Does your contract make reference to the contribution rate?
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"It is a condition of employment that you become a member of the Company Pension Scheme, to eligible employees. Employees' contribution is 4.5% of pensionable salary. "

I assumed that I was automatically a member of the pension scheme.
Now that I'm reading this, I must have been in breach of my contract as it was a condition of employment ????
 
HR will have to explain to you why there were no deductions to your wages for your pension. It does show the importance of reviewing your payslip on a regular basis though.
 
A very difficult one.
anbodearg said:
I was signed up to a 'risk-only insurance' pension.
But I wasn't part of the main pension.
Click to expand...

What does that mean? It sounds as if it was cover for death in service but not actually saving for a pension.

Were you in a very specific category of job that excluded you from the main pension?

If the contract said that they would contribute 4.5% and they would match it, then it would seem a reasonable outcome that they reconstruct a pension with their contribution.

But you should not get any benefit for the pension contribution you did not make as you must accept responsibility for not noticing it.

Brendan
 
anbodearg said:
It is a condition of employment that you become a member of the Company Pension Scheme, to eligible employees. Employees' contribution is 4.5% of pensionable salary. "
Click to expand...
A cold reading says they should have been deducting 4.5% for 15 years but weren’t.

In mitigation it seems you as employee didn’t notice.

It’s worth your while talking to a solicitor specialised in employment law.

Is your employer in liquidation?
 
moneymakeover said:
What even is

'risk-only insurance' pension?

I mean if you're a member of that... what does that give you?
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Only death in service benefit within the plan , would mean you are not a contributing employee to the pension …It’s a category for people where there might be a waiting period (ie probation) before you join or you opted out being a contributing member of the scheme for example but covered for death in service …..
The eligibility for death in service could be immediate upon joining and pension post probation.

You could possibily query what is defined as an“… to eligibie employees“ within that definition listed from HR as this would clarify when and what you had to do at that point in time. (Ie did you need to take action or should the employer/provider automatically include you) . It does mention “compulsory to join “within also so there should have been a query from provider to employer within the last 15 years why you were not contributing
 
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moneymakeover said:
What even is

'risk-only insurance' pension?

I mean if you're a member of that... what does that give you?
Click to expand...

Most likely a Death in Service scheme - effectively a group life insurance policy - which would pay out a lump sum in the event of death. Or possibly an Income Protection scheme which would pay out if an employee becomes too ill to work for longer than the waiting period.
 
It was cover for death in service, but not actually saving for a pension.
I was not in a specific category of job that excluded me from the main pension.

I had health cover all along, but not pension.
I assumed that I was in the pension.

HR is saying now that 'usually' the pension was an opt-in, and I would've had to return a signed form to HR to opt-in to the pension. It might not have been like that in 2007.
Nobody is quite sure how things worked back then.

There is no record of me opting-in or opting-out.
There is no record of me receiving this form, and so there is no record of me returning the form.

The payslips are PIN protected, so I was not looking at each payslip monthly.
I did have the PIN once before, but forgot it, and didn't re-request it.
Of course, I could have requested the PIN. But I didn't.
I assumed everything was correct as I was looking at my bank balance.

If I would have no pension without 'opt-in' in writing, then I was not aware of that.
I'm 100% certain that I would not have 'opted-out'.

Is there no obligation on the company (even a moral obligation) to follow-up?
If it was a 'condition of employment', should they have double-checked with me when I wasn't in the pension?





ClubMan said:
Are you sure that that's the verbatim wording?
The sentence doesn't really make sense.
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yes, I typed it in directly from a screenshot.
 
So you never ever checked your payslips?

When you got pay rises, you didn't check to see if they went through?

A switched on HR would notify its employees every so often that they were not in the pension scheme.

My guess is that you did notice this 15 years ago but didn't worry about it as pensions were so far into the future.

Brendan
 
ClubMan said:
Are you sure that that's the verbatim wording?
The sentence doesn't really make sense.
Click to expand...
yes, that's the verbatim wording. There's another paragraph for non-eligible employees, where a PRSA is provided.
Since it was a condition of employment, it is so strange that I was never queried in 15 years, why I was not contributing.
I assumed (wrongly) that I was. I even received some annual statements on the pension.
But now I'm told that that was the 'death in service' pension, and not the actual pension.
No, the employer is not in liquidation.
Yes, they should have been deducting and weren't.
Yes, I should have noticed.
I suppose somebody should have noticed/raised the question.
I was under the illusion that I was in the pension.
It came as a *huge* shock to find out that I was not.
The payslips are PDF email attachments and protected with a PIN code.
In the early days, I had the PIN, but over time I forgot the PIN code, and just checked my bank balance.
I could (should) have re-requested the PIN code, but didn't.

Of course pension is more important to me nowadays than it was 15 yrs ago, but this has come to me as such a huge shock now,
I really don't think I knew at anytime. I don't think I noticed, and didn't worry about it. If I did know, I think I'd have some inkling now.

Also back in 2007, Lotus Notes was used, and it's possible - nobody knows for sure - that I was actually in the pension, and making deductions, etc. But there are no records back that far, so nobody knows.

It seems reasonable that someone would ask the question, at least once in 15 years - why was I not in the pension?
 
Pension recipients should get an annual pension statement from the pension provider, or via the company. Usually there is a bit of chat in the office when these are issued, did you ever notice you were not getting them? I am really sorry this has happened to you, and the best you can do is speak to an employment lawyer as your contract of employment is a very specific legal document.

I think I have seen the line “condition of employment that you become a member of the Company Pension Scheme”, maybe in an old company handbook. To maintain a company pension plan all employees (permanent and over 18) would be required to join. I know I joined my pension plan from day 1 but someone who started 12 months after me had to wait until probation was over to formally join. But she was able to get the 6 months contribution retrospectively.

I am not surprised HR hasn’t a clue, but they need to be able to go back and reconstruct your onboarding. If it says that in you contract they would need to produce a document where you opted out formally rather than a document where you opted in. I don’t know how you managed to never look at 180 payslips, I know I can go months without checking mine but I do download them eventually.

If you were not added to the scheme day 1 and the payroll person meant to do it next month or the following month but forgot and then left I could see how it could happen. But the company HR dept also has reporting responsibility and auditing requirements. No of staff, no in pension scheme, % each contributes, % company contributes, leavers, joiners etc, etc. it is amazing no one queried your absence from the list in 15 years.

I know in my department the non-joiners were known and actively encouraged over the years to join. I have had several employees who did not join. And I was encouraged to share info and ask them to join several times. Converted 2 out of 3 to join. Also as recent as Jan I had a finance officer in the company who was talking salaries with me checking that all in my group were in the current DC pension, because as he put it, they were leaving company money on the table if the didn’t sign up.
 
“If it was a 'condition of employment', should they have double-checked with me when I wasn't in the pension?”

I would have thought so and broker/ provider should have also queried this with your HR /payroll if a condition of employment . Amazing it hasn’t popped up

Ask for the trustees to get involved , they can advise /investigate as they should have record of 2007 position to confirm what you should of done to join if anything or what they should of based on the eligibility in the trust deed in place at the time ..ask any other colleague you might know that started around same time If they had to complete anything if HR giving you run around also if possible

“usually” doesn’t fill you with confidence
 
Gosh I am getting as shocked as you.

Getting annual statements of you pension is a clear sign you are in the pension. How can they be so sure you were “only” in the death in service insurance part. Do they have copies of the statements they gave you.

Plus lotus notes is no excuse, every HR dept needs to keep long term accurate records of employment, especially where pensions are concerned. You can request from them a copy of all documentation they have relating to you. Then with the employment lawyer start asking for specific information relating to their pension policies and employment policies, staff hand books etc.
 
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