LPT - Property Valuation Guide Band

J

JimmyCorkhill

Registered User
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Hi,

Purchased a new build with it all signed off in June'23, house cost was €500k & got €30k back on HTB/FTB, so net cost was €470k. First paid a deposit in November 2022 but final sale did not go through to June'23.

Need to pay LPT and on the revenue.ie property valuation guide when I enter the eircode it is giving me a valuation of band 6 - €525k to €612.5k
Am I ok to drop a band and go to band 5 on the basis the house cost less than €525k?

Additionally, I know I also need to discount the house back to what it would be if it existed in November 2021 which is a revenue discount factor of 1.15. So, €500k divided by 1.15 makes it €434.8k which actually has me in band 4 which is between €350,001 €437,500.

Am I missing anything or doing anything wrong here?

Thanks
 
- the revenue valuation guide is merely a guide so you can ignore that
- the true value is what you paid for it, so 500K

I've no idea what you are referring to about as regards 2021 and discounts. You only purchased it in 2023, it wasn't even built before that ! So it's the situation in November 2023 surely. As that's the liability date.
 
Bronte said:
I've no idea what you are referring to about as regards 2021 and discounts. You only purchased it in 2023, it wasn't even built before that ! So it's the situation in November 2023 surely. As that's the liability date.
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No, the most recent valuation date is 1 November 2021.

I think the OP has it right - take the amount actually paid in 2023 (€500k) and divide by the applicable discount rate to get the valuation as if the property had existed on 1 November 2021.
 
Sarenco said:
No, the most recent valuation date is 1 November 2021.

I think the OP has it right - take the amount actually paid in 2023 (€500k) and divide by the applicable discount rate to get the valuation as if the property had existed on 1 November 2021.
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What is the discount for? And there was nothing built in 2001? First deposit was paid in November 2022 with the actual sale in 2023.
 
Sarenco said:
No, the most recent valuation date is 1 November 2021.

I think the OP has it right - take the amount actually paid in 2023 (€500k) and divide by the applicable discount rate to get the valuation as if the property had existed on 1 November 2021.
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Correct, I need to get the valuation as if it existed in November 2021.
 
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Sarenco said:
Yes, that’s all clear.

So, what’s your point?
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Clearly I'm missing something here. If there is no house in 2021 why would you use that as a valuation in November 2023? You just use the value of it last November. Which it would be reasonable to go with the figure paid for it in 2023
 
Bronte said:
It would be much easier if revenue just agreed on the purchase price as the valuation.
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So you think taxpayers should pay LPT on properties with different valuation dates.

How would that be equitable?

The discount rates are reflective of general house price increases since 1 November 2021.
 
Sarenco said:
So you think taxpayers should pay LPT on properties with different valuation dates.

How would that be equitable?

The discount rates are reflective of general house price increases since 1 November 2021.
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How do you know the discounts are correctly calculated? I think we should deal with reality, the value on purchase, and that should apply to all properties. When sold. With the prior value staying with the prior guestimate by the owner. (good faith scenario)

What happens if property prices decreased?
 
Bronte said:
How do you know the discounts are correctly calculated?
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That's what Revenue considers a reasonable discount to allow for the fact that house prises, in general, have risen since 1 November 2021.

By applying this discount to a 2023 purchase price, you can obviously be certain that Revenue will not subsequently challenge the valuation.
Bronte said:
When sold. With the prior value staying with the prior guestimate by the owner. (good faith scenario)
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But there's no need for a good faith guestimate!

The OP knows what he brought the property for in 2023 and he know what Revenue considers a reasonable discount to arrive at a valuation as if the property had existed on 1 November 2021.

It really is that simple.
Bronte said:
I think we should deal with reality, the value on purchase, and that should apply to all properties.
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Again, that would mean that taxpayers would be calculating their LPT on the basis of a variety of valuation dates.

Sorry, but that makes zero sense.

Thankfully, our legislature didn't take your approach. But if you continue to disagree, please feel free to lobby your local TDs.
Bronte said:
What happens if property prices decreased?
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But property prices didn't decrease between 2021 and 2023!

If they had then presumably Revenue guidance would have prescribed a premium to apply to a property purchased in 2023 that did not exist on 1 November 2021.
 
Sarenco said:
By applying this discount to a 2023 purchase price, you can obviously be certain that Revenue will not subsequently challenge the valuation.


But property prices didn't decrease between 2021 and 2023!

If they had then presumably Revenue guidance would have prescribed a premium to apply to a property purchased in 2023 that did not exist on 1 November 2021.
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Revenue have changed their rules and their guidance already, not as regards this but as regards divided properties for LPT. I have it in writing from them that my good faith valuation for the 1st LPT is ok. Though @T McGibney thinks I cannot rely on it !

Revenue didn't tell anyone they had changed their guidance, and many tax payers have no clue. So unless you keep this latest discount guidance you could be in a whole heap of trouble in 10 years time.

One can say, in general, property prices increased, but it will also be the case that some properties decreased.

(By in writing, I didn't rely on my own web revenue links correspondence, I got actual signed revenue letters)

​

 
Bronte said:
Revenue have changed their rules and their guidance already, not as regards this but as regards divided properties for LPT. I have it in writing from them that my good faith valuation for the 1st LPT is ok. Though @T McGibney thinks I cannot rely on it !
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Please don't misrepresent or mock what I have said.

I don't know you and have not even seen the document to which you refer, and therefore cannot have expressed an opinion on its worth or lack thereof.

My earlier general comments stand in relation to how Revenue treat advice dispensed by their staff.
 
Hi all,

I am a property owner and have been paying property tax on an annual basis via direct debit since the tax inception. However in October 2023 we moved out as are renovating our home which consists of some demolition work and then an extension build. The project duration and the time we have moved out for is October 2023 - May 2024.

So my question is for this period the house is severely less that we previously valued for property tax until such a time when the project is finished and we are able to move back into the house. Am I therefore able to reduce the property value and thus the property tax I pay for a portion of 2023 and 2024 ?

Thanks
 
Hi, given the value of your property is €X, correctly valued, with LPT paid, and is going up for sale. Hypothetically, if you get a greater price for the property does revenue consider it an incorrect valuation by you? Is there a retrospective payment? Tks
 
babyblackie said:
Hi, given the value of your property is €X, correctly valued, with LPT paid, and is going up for sale. Hypothetically, if you get a greater price for the property does revenue consider it an incorrect valuation by you? Is there a retrospective payment? Tks
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Well, the valuation dates for LPT purposes are clear:
Isn't it the case that as long as the valuations at those dates was done accurately and honestly (as much as one can value a property that didn't actually sell at the time) then there is no further liability or retrospective payment?
 

​

If there is a disparity between the valuation for LPT and the sale price, Revenue have a system of checking whether the disparity is acceptable or not.

See below.

If not, a vendor can either seek Specific Clearance on the disparity - or amend the LPT returns for all years and pay the difference plus interest and penalties.


Everything you need to know:

What is Revenue clearance?

This page describes what Revenue clearance is for Local Property Tax purposes
www.revenue.ie www.revenue.ie

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What is Revenue clearance?​

You must obtain Revenue clearance on the sale or transfer of a property. Revenue clearance provides confirmation that the property is fully compliant for Local Property Tax (LPT).
There are two types of Revenue clearance:
  • general clearance
  • and
  • specific clearance.
The property does not qualify for either general or specific clearance where:
  • there are outstanding or deferred LPT liabilities, or Household Charge (HHC) liabilities
  • there are outstanding LPT returns.
The easiest way to check that the property is fully compliant is by logging into LPT Online to review the LPT records.

General clearance​

General clearance means that you do not need to submit an application to Revenue. General clearance applies if either of the conditions outlined below are met.

Condition 1​

The sale price is €400,000 or less.
Note

This threshold was increased from €350,000 with effect from 13 November 2023.

Condition 2​

Condition 2 is split into parts A and B. Where either part A or part B is satisfied, general clearance applies.

Condition 2 (A) applies if your property was liable for LPT on 1 May 2013​

The sale price does not exceed:

  • the upper limit of the valuation band declared as of 1 May 2013 by 125% (or 125% above the actual declared value for properties above Band 19)
  • and
  • the upper limit of the valuation band declared as of 1 November 2021 by 15% (or 15% above the actual declared value for properties above Band 19).

Condition 2 (B) applies if your property was not liable for LPT on 1 May 2013​

The sale price does not exceed 15% of the upper limit of the valuation band declared as of 1 November 2021 (or 15% above the actual declared value for properties above Band 19).

Prior to the sale of the property, you (the seller) can obtain general clearance by accessing the LPT Online Service using:

  • your Personal Public Service Number (PPSN)
  • the property ID
  • and
  • the Property Index Number (PIN).

Specific clearance​

If you do not meet Condition 1 or Condition 2, you must apply to Revenue for specific clearance. You can apply for specific clearance by completing Form LPT5. You can submit your form through MyEnquiries when you log in to the LPT Online Service.

Specific clearance applications are generally processed within 12 working days. Please do not contact Revenue for an update until this time frame has elapsed.
 
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