Local authorities are giving out houses too easily

[Brendan Burgess]

Originally posted by "The Problem is..." in another forum:

The problem is that now that the country has become so wealthy, councils are building houses at taxpayers exp and a pair of teenagers (really teenagers, no kids) who have just starting holding hands in public can now get a council house. This is happening in rural Ireland. In small town in Cavan, council has built 50+ houses in last three years and 32 are empty. They are giving them out to anyone who applies and has a family history of having a council house provided.

This is starting to make even me, someone who works hard, saves for the future, feels can't afford another child (got one), why bother? Give up the two jobs my husband and I have, get a council house, go on a course, have some more kids. Couldn't do it but there is the real issue.

 

[monk]

Giving up houses too easily

Yes, they are & they're also giving free food & shelter to the homeless, the cheek!! Think about it FF are in power, only builders, horse trainers & their other mates get something for nothing..
I'm happy you have a house but many don't & cannot afford it in modern Ireland, Bottom line...

 

[MOB]

I don't think there is a general oversupply of local authority houses. However, as we get close (finally) to being able to meet housing needs (and I believe we are getting very close to this point) there are going to be occasional local oversupply issues. I am personally aware of 6 "affordable" houses no more than 50 miles from Dublin, where the local authority have had to advertise continuously to find anybody to take them - including advertising in towns 15 miles away (which would suggest they had abandoned hope of finding enough locals). Undoubtedly as officials struggle to save face, rather than admit that they got it wrong in projecting housing needs in any given area, some people will get local authority houses or affordable houses in circumstances where it does't seem that they really should. I expect things will even out after a while.

 

[rainyday]

It would clearly make sense to review the statistics for the country as a whole before taking any drastic action. Oversupply in one county is not a good reason for cancelling the public housing scheme as a whole. I understand that there are still very lengthy waiting lists in Dublin, and you are likely to need > 1 child before you would qualify.

Of course, it is dangerous to have any scheme which appears to incentivise people to have more children than they can provide for. But if you were to cancel the public housing scheme, who would you be punishing - the parent or the child? And does anyone working on minimum wage have a hope in hell of being able to get accomodation without turning to their local authority?

 

[Delboy]

Local Authority Housing

Totally agree with you Brendan.

Lately, a new development was built in a village not far from me in the west of Ireland. Over 50 odd houses which doubled the size of the village!!!!!!

I know of some local girls who were barely 20, still living at home, and just managed to get pregnant while the houses were being built. They applied for the houses and got them immediately. I'm not saying they planned to get pregnant, but none of them are in long term relationships, or have regular employment. They even seemed to take great joy in the local telling all and sundry about their new houses and inviting all over for parties when they were built. Not nice to hear when you've just taken out a colossal mortgage yourself.

A mate of mine who is married with 1 kid, also got a house, plus 3 grand towards furnishing it. He pays back something like 20 euro a month, as both himself and the wife are on the dole but still can afford a fairly new car. They're well capable of working but don't see the need to do so as they claim they would'nt have got the house if they did work. His mother owns an average sized farm that she leases and 1 day this will be his.

It's a great little country......who's the fool in all of this!!!!

 

[Brendan Burgess]

Re: Local Authority Housing

Hi Delboy

Just to make it clear I have not expressed a view on this subject. I have simply transferred the above views from another thread.

Brendan

 

[Delboy]

Local authroity housing

Fair enough Brendan. my apologies for alluding to you.

 

[The problem is]

.

Monk, I was not talking about the poor and homeless. I am pointing about oversupply, councils unable to fill houses and, in one case I know, resorting to giving a house to two teenagers who moved out of their family homes and have no kids.

I cannot see the justification for that.

I am not even talking about the young single parents because accidents can happen.

Rainyday, the only drastic action on the matter I might have alluded to was that some measurment of need for social housing in a particular area should happen before the houses are built at tax payers expense.

 

[CM]

Great little country

They're well capable of working but don't see the need to do so as they claim they would'nt have got the house if they did work. His mother owns an average sized farm that she leases and 1 day this will be his.

It's a great little country......who's the fool in all of this!!!!

With virtually full employment in this country, we should be really clamping down on cheats / spongers like this, and telling them to get on their bike to Dublin / Cork and start paying income tax like everyone else.

But none of the politicians in this country have the neck to stand up and say this.

 

[rainyday]

Re: Great little country

Rainyday, the only drastic action on the matter I might have alluded to was that some measurment of need for social housing in a particular area should happen before the houses are built at tax payers expense.

Couldn't disagree with that. However, I could disagree with the begrudging post from Delboy above where he takes offence at the hosting of a house-warming party. What do you expect - sackcloth and ashes?

Either we accept the need for local authority housing, or we don't? Assuming that most of us do, we need sensible enforcement (and tracking down of any fraudsters). But we don't really need to expect council recipients to tug their forelock and bow down in gratitude and never have a party.

 

[littlegubby]

Re: Great little country

here here! rainyday.. this discussion can go on and on..like the other big decision we must make on June 11th. but I can only see if from where I am standing. In my house at the moment there are 6 adults and one child... my lovely granddaughter. my daughter with her child has been told that she has little or no hope of getting housed in the forseeable future. Her ex (father of child) is constantly harrassing her (after a year of seperation) so much that we fear for her safety if she had to move very far from her home. We live in county cork and there doesnt seem to be any surplus of houses here. I met a girl the other day who had just got a 2bedroom flat after SEVEN years liveing with parents in overcrowed conditions. I can only speak for here... maybe we should move!!!

 

[darag]

Re: Great little country

actually i don't agree with the government or local authorities building social houses. for one thing it often results in creating ghettos of social deprivation much more so than privately built housing. misguided social housing schemes have caused untold misery and social isolation in this country.

secondly it ties up welfare resources in a completely inflexible way. peoples' situations change (both improve and get worse) and it is difficult or impossible for the welfare system to respond in a timely manner as this thread demonstrates. this inflexibility also causes great inequity in the way welfare resources are allocated.

i'd prefer to offer proper rent allowance (linked to average rent levels) as the form of housing welfare as well as some reform of tenancy laws in favour of tenants. i know such a system operates reasonably successfully in germany. such a system addresses both of the problems; the recipients of the welfare are distributed among the non-welfare receiving population and if a person's situation improves the welfare can be reduced or eliminated. likewise, welfare resources can be very quickly allocated to those that need it.

 

[mary]

rent

What about security of tenancy you do not get with private accommodation.

 

[mollser]

while on the topic...

slightly off topic, but similar, the Irish times had a story yesterday about the new luxurious 4 bed approx e340k houses in Co. Clare (?) to move travellers into. e4m has been spent on these houses. And one family refused to move in because of a dispute with another family who got a house.

Whatever about spending money on building houses for poor unfortunates, this above scenario goes beyond disgraceful. I object to my tax money being used in this way. I don't think we can blame FF either - it was local council who funded this project.

 

[Protocol]

typical

If travellers want houses, let them buy them like anybody else. They have businesses, and incomes, so let them buy a house if they want one.

The taxpapers shouldn't be paying for them.

 

[rainyday]

Re: typical

So we should as a society, specifically discriminate against one ethnic group, based on anecdotal evidence of other income/jobs? Charming eh?

Certainly, if travellers do have income, this should be taxed and should be taken into consideration when allocating council housing.

Mollser, just [broken link removed], Fianna Fail have monopolised Clare County Council for nearly 70 years.

 

[Protocol]

bit of a rant

Certainly, if travellers do have income, this should be taxed and should be taken into consideration when allocating council housing.

Except I strongly doubt that this happens. Do you really think they will have a P60 or certified accounts to show their income??

Clearly not.

So they have a good income, and get a free house. Positive discrimination in favour of a small group in society.

By the by, one could argue that they contribute very little to society, but take a lot from society. I doubt they are paying €100 tax per week like many other people.

And while I'm on this point, it often seems that "society" is to blame for their poor health and shorter lives.

Obviously, it's not. If I lived on the side of the road for years, with poor sanitation, my life expectancy would be less.

My own fault for choosing to live like that.

Not society's fault.

Same goes for AIDS. The impression is often given that it is somehow society's fault, and that these people are "victims".

Not the case. Most AIDS cases are entirely preventable. You own fault for sleeping around or using risky needles.

Not society's fault.

 

[rainyday]

Re: bit of a rant

I'm not quite sure I understand, Protocol. Are you saying that you know personally and for sure yourself that ALL travellers 'have a good income'? If so, I'd be interested to hear your supporting data?

And your comment about AIDS could be logically extended to almost everyone in hospital. They should all have eaten less, exercised more, given up smoking, driven slower, managed stress better, drank less etc etc. All their own fault. Perhaps we should just shut down the hospitals and let people look after themselves?

 

[Protocol]

no data

I have no data.

They do not ALL have a good income.

What I do have is eyes, and a small bit of cop-on. New Isuzu Troopers aren't cheap, I will never be able to afford one. So these travellers who own such vehicles must have access to strong incomes to afford them.

Fair play to them. If they work hard, and earn a good income, they buy a new jeep. Grand.

But have they paid income tax along the way?? I wonder.

Your point about AIDS is taken. What I am getting at is the type of media reports: "World Health Conference says we should be doing more for AIDS crisis in Africa", that sort of thing. If male Africans are promiscious and sleeping around, it's not my fault, or the west's fault. But that's the impression that the media give.

 

[rainyday]

Re: no data

But have they paid income tax along the way?? I wonder.

Absolutely agree - and I'd love to see Revenue hitting any tax fraudsters (travellers, AIB exec directors, dodgy landlords etc etc) hard. But I don't see the relevance to the housing issue, once a sensible assessment of income is done.