Leaving Cert Orals to suffer

How exactly are the LC orals to "suffer"?

From the ASTI website..

"If the strike goes ahead - and a final decision on that will be taken over the next few days - oral examinations scheduled for March 30th will be held on another day that week. "

Hardly suffering. OTT scaremongering which is par for the course on this site I'm afraid.

Predicably what should be a rational discussion about the proposed strike and it's (non) effect on the orals has degenerated once again into "my teacher was rubbish....teachers get too much holidays...if it wasn't for those teachers getting paid" nonsense.

I spend countless hours working in a voluntary capacity with the students in my school. Reading the BS spouted here is discouraging to say the least. Predictable but discouraging nonetheless.

Caveat said:

I agree, but most teachers I've known probably aren't that bothered TBH.

As a career option teaching should be something that people genuinely want to do but unfortunately, as far as I can see, like the priesthood and the gardaí, for many it just seems to be a "sure I might as well" type choice.

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Try telling that to the hundreds of unsuccessful candidates who didn't get into the HDip.

Caveat said:

A lot of teachers I know positively dislike children.

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How many teachers do you know who have actually said that to you?

becky said:

So, as we all know strike action does not have a mandate.
But why is any strike action taking place?
Its IMPACT who do not have a mandate. INO, SIPTU for example have a mandate.

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Yes, fair enough but I was speaking about Impact. By their own criteria there is not enough support from their own members for a strike.

Yet they say they are "committed to protecting any member who refuses to cross a picket line from any sanctions by management."

To me, implicit in that statement is tacit support for a strike - even though their members don't want one (and the union 'are it's members' as I was once reminded on this site)

What I meant by:

What would it take for strike action to be unofficial?

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...was in the sense that if there was only say 55% in favour or 35% or 10% would Impact still make statements like the above?

As far as I'm concerned whether 5% or 65% are in favour it doesn't matter - Impact are offering what is tantamount to support of unmandated, undemocratic and in my book, unofficial strike action and they are way out of order IMO.

bamboozle said:

what annoys me most is the fact that the Dept of Education budget was increased by something like 300 million in October budget, however this money was required to pay increased teachers salarys per benchmarking...no mention of this by teachers over the last few months when they complained about class sizes being reduced due to lack of funding etc...

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Really?

And there was me thinking that we got a 0% increase in the last benchmarking.

cole said:

Try telling that to the hundreds of unsuccessful candidates who didn't get into the HDip.

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Just as many people don't get into many jobs. Happens all the time.

How many teachers do you know who have actually said that to you?

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Two of my own former secondary school teachers admitted as much to me in a social situation.

They are certainly not alone - there are plenty of teachers who have physically and psychologically vented their frustrations and insecurities on undeserving classroom victims. They can't have much respect for children either.

Caveat said:

Just as many people don't get into many jobs. Happens all the time.

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There is huge competition to get into teaching. Hardly a case of "sure I might as well".

Caveat said:

Two of my own former secondary school teachers admitted as much to me in a social situation.

They are certainly not alone - there are plenty of teachers who have physically and psychologically vented their frustrations and insecurities on undeserving classroom victims. They can't have much respect for children either.

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You can say the same for guards, doctors, bankers. The vast majority don't and have a lot of respect for their students.

I appreciate your frustration cole, I had many teachers that went way beyond their job description and spent many hours training sports teams, giving free grinds, doing extra classes before exams, running debating teams, musical societies, camera clubs etc.
The problem is that your union sets the bar at the lowest common denominator and insists that that's good enough. While that happens it is legitimate that you, and all like you, are judged by the same standards as that minority of teachers that we all remember that were brutal at their job, did no preparation time and damaged every child that had the misfortune to pass through their class. While your union protects these people you will be judged with them.

Purple said:

The problem is that your union sets the bar at the lowest common denominator and insists that that's good enough. While that happens it is legitimate that you, and all like you, are judged by the same standards as that minority of teachers that we all remember that were brutal at their job, did no preparation time and damaged every child that had the misfortune to pass through their class. While your union protects these people you will be judged with them.

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Succintly summed up. I don't agree that that should be or is the case. However during my time on this site I've tried my best to put forward a case for teachers based on rational debate seemingly without success judging by the comments on these threads and others.

I'm tired of the negative comments and constant criticism directed at my profession. It doesn't help me in my job. So with that I'm going to sign off.

Leaving Cert Orals will NOT suffer as above! Teachers have been hit with this levy and are as entitled to raise their objections through industrial action as any other unionised body.

Until the fatcats of banking, property development, big business and tax exiles are targetted for their fare share of taxes I'm fully supportive of those who have the luxury of being able to strike to show their feelings at the rapidly increasing tax burden on low and middle income earners. As a worker in a non-union job, I just have to grin and bear it/.

shesells said:

Leaving Cert Orals will NOT suffer as above! Teachers have been hit with this levy and are as entitled to raise their objections through industrial action as any other unionised body.

Until the fatcats of banking, property development, big business and tax exiles are targetted for their fare share of taxes I'm fully supportive of those who have the luxury of being able to strike to show their feelings at the rapidly increasing tax burden on low and middle income earners. As a worker in a non-union job, I just have to grin and bear it/.

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If you are a teacher then surely you will realise that adjustments to timetables or even potential adjustments will affect the pupils, the dog in the street knows this is one of the most stressful times for any person, last thing they need is the uncertainty of when they will sit their Leaving Cert Oral Exams.

its worrying the misconception that currently exists in this country that if bankers & tax exiles were brought to task our ills would disappear, all this is is creating scapegoats at a time when we need our government to front up & be proactive, yes some bankers were out of line but that is a very small matter when you consider that state of the nations revenue.

If the Financial Regulator had been doing his job the banks would not be in the mess they are in, If successive FF governments did not win elections by creating/improving/increasing property related taxes/reliefs/shelters the property market would not have become so inflated. If you're going to vent fury at least know what the correct reasons are for this mess.

Well said Bamboozle.

@Cole - I concede that I may have been a bit harsh in my comments.

I realise there are plenty of dedicated professional teachers around too - I was taught by some myself.

I just don't accept that just because they are teachers they have an automatic social concern/empathy for the inconvenience/stress of their students - not always the case at all.

Caveat said:

Yes, fair enough but I was speaking about Impact. By their own criteria there is not enough support from their own members for a strike.

Yet they say they are "committed to protecting any member who refuses to cross a picket line from any sanctions by management."

To me, implicit in that statement is tacit support for a strike - even though their members don't want one (and the union 'are it's members' as I was once reminded on this site)

What I meant by:

...was in the sense that if there was only say 55% in favour or 35% or 10% would Impact still make statements like the above?

As far as I'm concerned whether 5% or 65% are in favour it doesn't matter - Impact are offering what is tantamount to support of unmandated, undemocratic and in my book, unofficial strike action and they are way out of order IMO.

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I didn't reply to this because I don't know, its an unusual stance from a trade union. I can only conclude that if someone from Impact decided to strike/or not pass the picket and they are disciplined then they would have union support in the normal way. Yes they do seem to be 'encouraging' members to strike without a mandate and I don't agree with it.

Teachers who voted to strike next monday should be ashamed of themselves, considering all leaving cert students have their orals starting that day it is a shocking reflection on those teachers who voted to strike.

Given most secondary schools are just back from their mid-term break & only a few weeks from Easter Holidays surely they should have shown some thought for these students and held their own strike during one of their many days off during the school year.

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As teachers dont work for approx. four months of the year the selection of strike days is very important. How for example could teachers strike if this mondays proposed action was postponed for a couple of weeks, they would all be on easter holidays. Will will get out of their beds to picket schools if there is a national strike in the July? I don't think so.

As teachers are now so fond of telling us teaching is a career, not a vocation (my college friends those who became teachers broadly fell into two groups, those who always wanted to be teachers, and those who got a third in their final results and couldn't get onto any other postgrad course other than the HDip), so their pay and conditions take precedence over that of their pupils.

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