Landlord presenting refuse charges upon leaving

I have been house-sharing the past 3 years and we are all moving out at the same time. Our landlord has now said that the last 3 years of refuse charges are due. We were not aware that they were outstanding. After checking the lease I see that it does say that we are liable for charges. I would have expected that the bill for them would have been given to us as and when they were due and not lumped together when leaving.

Another thing is that there were previous housemates who moved out during this time and would not have contributed towards this.

I'm wondering where I stand with this. Can he present us with refuse charges dating back to 2012 now?

Thanks in advance.

Bit unreasonable and sloppy by the landlord, though if the lease says you owe them guess you owe them. How much are they?

Suggest you offer to pay the landlord your share of the charges for the period of time you lived there. If a three bed house then your share is one third.

Did you pay other utilities? If so how come no one ever asked the question regarding refuse costs. Did you all keep the head down and say nothing, not asking the landlord or did you genuinely think that the landlord was responsible? To me that is the heart of the issue and really only you know the answer to that.

Gerard123 said:

Did you all keep the head down and say nothing, not asking the landlord or did you genuinely think that the landlord was responsible? To me that is the heart of the issue and really only you know the answer to that.

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As a landlord I disagree with this. He should have presented the bills annually. He is totally incorrect to present bills now.

It would have been common practice in many counties for landlords to pay the refuse as it was not like a normal utility in the past. Not when it was paid ot the local co.co. and was a charge that was linked to the property.

QuantumLeap said:

Another thing is that there were previous housemates who moved out during this time and would not have contributed towards this.

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And the landlord would know this. Did he actually pay the bills do you know, it's most likely he did as otherwise refuse would not be collected. You willl have to try and reason with him. Meantime I suggest you contact PRTB and find out your rights.

Tried to be balanced in my reply. I am a landlord now though wish I wasn't! though was a tenant for many many years also. I find that things between landlords and tenants are frequently never black and white. Do we have the full story here? (I rented once in a shared house and the landlord communicated through one tenant, tenants came and went, etc.). Who had responsibility for tenants coming and going, landlord, or remaining tenants? Did the tenants tell the landlord in all cases? How did the other bills get sorted? Are the people in the house friends and were the tenants who moved in and out broadly part of a larger circle of friends? Why all now moving out at the same time? Other considerations arise which puts context around the position.

My opening line was that the landlords approach was unreasonable and sloppy. Of course I agree that he should have presented bills frequently but a tenant who is aware that they owe charges also has some responsibility for the situation they now find themselves in.

If they KNEW that they owed the money it's a bit rich crying foul now in my mind. If on the other hand they had spoken to the landlord in the past about it and he still didn't provide a bill well that is a different story, I would be more inclined towards the tenant. At the same time I find it very hard to believe that in a SHARED rented house the question of refuse bills, indeed all bills, never arose once in three years??

That was really why I asked the question. If the tenants deliberately ignored what they knew were costs that they should pay that puts a slightly different colour on things. Of course it still does not excuse the landlords shoddiness so he deserves some financial pain! Legally though the tenants are still liable for their share, though I can't see how current tenants would be held liable for tenants who have left.

I suggested the tenant offers to pay their share only, ie talk to landlord and try to arrive at a reasonable compromise. In no way should the tenant pay for other tenants who have left, that would most certainly be unreasonable in my view.

The only thing I disagree with is contacting the PRTB at this time. Think it's far better to have a conversation with the landlord and try and reach a sensible agreement. Going down the road of prtb is premature, particularly given that they lived in the house for three years so that would suggest to me a reasonable, at a minimum, working relationship with the landlord.

(My guess is that the heart of this question must relate to the return of the deposit.)

My understanding was that it varies from situation to situation whether or not a tenant pays refuse charges. It was only when asked for them on leaving that I checked the lease and saw it there. He first asked for 2013 and 2014 and while we were unhappy with the unexpectedly late charge we agreed to share it out between the tenants that are leaving and told him that. Now he has responded saying that he just realised that 2012 charges are due as well. This is what has pushed me over the top about it. I guess what it comes down to is is he legally allowed to present us with such old bills for the first time at this late stage?

Oh, to get the full story first time!

So you paid the last two years which was very reasonable by you in fairness. Tell the landlord enough is enough!

Though I still think you are legally liable, and this is proven by you paying the last two years. Appreciate you are miffed alright, understandable.

Can't be a big additional cost surely! Does he have your deposit? Have you moved out yet?

I can see that you could argue and take a case to the prtb though I actually think you may lose legally. Ultimately a judgement for you to make whether it's worth the hassle if the landlord, despite you talking and trying to reason with him, refuses to back down.

Good luck!

Gerard thanks for your reply. There is no unusual context here. We're all moving out at the same time to move in with respective partners. All other bills have been taken care of. There has been one consistent couple living there the last 4 years whose names the bills were in and they are all paid up. Requests for refuse charges were never made before this. It as if he has retroactively decided that we wishes to charge for them. We thought we would be doing the landlord a favour moving out at the same time so he could rent the apartment as a whole. And yes, the fear is he just takes it out of the security deposit.

If you are livng in an apartment, then presumably the landlord is paying an annual mangement fee which includes the cost of refuse disposal. I rent out an apartment and the management fee covers the cost of refuse. I don't pass on this charge to the tenants although I suppose in theory I could. How is he calcuating the cost of the refuse? In my case, the management fee covers all the services for the estate, but they are not listed as separate items so you can't say for sure what percentage of the fee goes towards refuse costs. The only way I could calculate it would be by reference to the overall annual accounts. If this goes back three years, then presumably he has also done his tax returns and claimed refuse disposal, as part of the management fee, as a deductible expense.

Andarma said:

If you are livng in an apartment, then presumably the landlord is paying an annual mangement fee which includes the cost of refuse disposal. I rent out an apartment and the management fee covers the cost of refuse. I don't pass on this charge to the tenants although I suppose in theory I could. How is he calcuating the cost of the refuse? In my case, the management fee covers all the services for the estate, but they are not listed as separate items so you can't say for sure what percentage of the fee goes towards refuse costs. The only way I could calculate it would be by reference to the overall annual accounts. If this goes back three years, then presumably he has also done his tax returns and claimed refuse disposal, as part of the management fee, as a deductible expense.

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Should be itemized in the annual accounts.

However, I think that with 4 of them it was, as the OP said a house-share.

Have you seen the actual bills? If it's an apartment the charges are generally included in the management fees paid by the landlord. How much money are we talking about here per person?

The landlord was very late presenting these bills so I think as a matter of fairness he should absorb some of the cost himself. He has done well to get you to pay up for a couple of years retrospectively.