Is this an anti property investment forum

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ukdavros

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Hi Guys
Reading through some of the posts on this Forum it seems all doom and gloom. Every on that asks about a particular country seems to get the general advice dont do it.

We have moved from the UK to Ireland, because its much better over here.
We have 3 buy to lets in the UK.
I have just sold my UK Residence and looking to re invest in more properties, Maybe more in the UK and we are also thinking abroad. We were looking at the Orient Palace thing in Turkey, but it seems world war three is about to break out over there.

What suggestions can this Forum offer as where would be a good place to invest if any.

Thanks
Mark and Karen
 
The general question of attitudes on AAM in general & Brendan in particular to overseas property investment is already being discussed on this thread, so I'd ask any posters who want to discuss ukdavos's general comments on this issue to keep discussion to the other thread.

Any posters with answers to the 'good place to invest' question should continue to post on this thread.
 
hi guys, it is less a case of a bias against property investment per se, rather than the motivations behind it. Reading through a lot of the posts you can see that a lot of (Irish) retail investors are buying properties overseas without carrying out any research as to the suitability of property as an investment for them.

It seems to be a case of I want to buy in Turkey/Bulgaria/Florida/UK etc...can any one provide some advice? Instead of analysing ALL the investment alternatives a lot of people appear to be making the property investment decision based on little more than a desire to own more than one property.

Don't get me wrong - property can be a suberb investment but it needs to be judged as you would any investment - risk; return; tax implications; time horizon liquidity etc...Though it would appear from some of the positing in this form little thought is given to these considerations. It is difficult not to come to the conclusion that a good number of the people buying overseas at present are fairly unsophisticated investors and this is not normally an encouraging sign for any market.

As for places to invest (assuming that you have come to the conclusion that you want/need to increase your exposure to property) i would advise that you look for yeild over capital appreciation - especially given how far the property markets in many countries have come in the past few years.
 
None of the moderators, who in reality drive AAM, appear to have invested outside of Ireland in property even during the good times and in my view are more useful to smaller investors in equity type plans. The on-line community appears to be biased towards younger people with less in assets and spending, hence the myopic focus on the cost of everything.
 
The moderators spend a lot of time trying to ensure that we don't let trolls and troublemakers who register under different names drag down AAM.

Hence we have no time to investigate the wonderful possibilities that overseas property investment may have to offer.
 
ukdavros said:
What suggestions can this Forum offer as where would be a good place to invest if any.
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Have you browsed the Property Investment forum for ideas? There are scores of recent threads on where is good/where is not so good.
 
As RainyDay said in another thread people should not confuse skeptical commentary with cynical/critical/dismissive commentary on any investment (on any other discussion topic for that matter). The former is a prudent/logical approach designed to get to a balanced view of all of the pro and cons, costs and benefits, advantages and pitfalls etc. The latter might represent the sort of "blanket condemnation" that certain people accuse others of engaging in but which I don't believe is prevalent on AAM.
 
Hi
I agree you have to be Skeptical. I am just looking for some good properties to invest in. Every one of them will have some kind of risk, if it didnt we would all be millionaire property Tycoons.
The Turkey one looked good with the lease back, although it may not last the 10% for 10 years as quoted. A lot of people seem to be buying there so is it that bad.
I would still like some ideas on good places to invest and I can take it from there. I will be doing research and this is part of it.

Regards
Mark
 
ukdavros said:
I agree you have to be Skeptical.
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So does that mean that you have changed your views?
ukdavros said:
Reading through some of the posts on this Forum it seems all doom and gloom. Every on that asks about a particular country seems to get the general advice dont do it.
Click to expand...
 

Lookded at that Orient Turkey one at a recent property expo...to me it looked like that you pay your money & get it back in rental over a number of years & that you get to use the property for 6wks per year yourself...if thats the same one.....being developed by some Dutch bloke.... I avoided because of the obvious uncertanties in that region on the resale...

ninsaga
 
ClubMan said:
So does that mean that you have changed your views?
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Not totally
It is a lot easier to come up with reasons not to do things than to come up with positives.
It is like saying dont buy anything anywhere because the earth is way over due getting hit by another Meteor.
Yes Turkey could end up with a cival war, but it was more difficult to predict what happend in Yugoslavia. There are a lot of problems in a lot of countries.
anywere I buy will have a risk attached to it and you have to decide how bad or good that risk is.
There are going to be people on here with a lot more experience than me and I was hoping to tap into some of that experience.
All I wanted was some ideas on some good places to buy as far as the opinion of people on this board. But that I guess is not likely to happen because people are likely to keep that information to themselves.

Regards
Mark
 
ukdavros said:
It is a lot easier to come up with reasons not to do things than to come up with positives.
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Just because somebody says something like "foreign jurisdiction tax issues must be considered" doesn't mean that they are presenting this as a reason not to do anything but rather as something that needs to be factored in and analysed.
It is like saying dont buy anything anywhere because the earth is way over due getting hit by another Meteor.
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What is? Perhaps you could give a specific example of where somebody said the equivalent of this in the context of foreign/domestic property investment?
Yes Turkey could end up with a cival war, but it was more difficult to predict what happend in Yugoslavia. There are a lot of problems in a lot of countries.
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I would be more worried about earthquakes than, say, civil war or Islamic fundamentalism out in Turkey to be honest. I'd hate to invest in a property to have it destroyed by earthquake and perhaps not be able to insure for that event. I'd also hate to die before my time.
anywere I buy will have a risk attached to it and you have to decide how bad or good that risk is.
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I totally agree. And people who post here looking for comments, feedback, advice should expect more than just a well done, go for it and a pat on the back. They will usually be presented with challenging comments which hopefully help them to look objectively and prudently at the situation rather than just storming ahead. If some people misread skepticism and challenging comments as criticisms, dismissals, "blanket condemnations" (a la Ric) etc. then that's their own problem.
There are going to be people on here with a lot more experience than me and I was hoping to tap into some of that experience.
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Of course. That's what the forum is all about.
All I wanted was some ideas on some good places to buy as far as the opinion of people on this board. But that I guess is not likely to happen because people are likely to keep that information to themselves.
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I'm not sure that this is the case. There are very open discussion about potential investment opportunities all across this forum. What is of no use is for people to say that such and such a location is a great place without any qualification or further teasing out of the pros/cons, costs/benefits, risks/rewards etc.
 
ukdavros said:
All I wanted was some ideas on some good places to buy as far as the opinion of people on this board. But that I guess is not likely to happen because people are likely to keep that information to themselves.
Click to expand...

To repeat:

Have you browsed the Property Investment forum for ideas? There are scores of recent threads on where is good/where is not so good.
Click to expand...
 
From a personal point of view, i've bought both in Ireland and the UK in the past.

There are two sides to every story so I would say, listen to as much as you can, then make your own mind up.

If a one-off comment can turn your head then maybe you aren't ready for the commitment.
 
The answer to which country is a good place to buy is simple "every country" if you get the right property at the right price. You focus should not be on the country but the actual property, unless you are buying a country of course.
 
In my book there is a lot of due dilligence required when contemplating buying a property especially abroad.
I think a lot of posters on AAM are rightfully cautious as many posts are direct will I buy or not questions related to specific adverts in daily/sunday papers touting overseas investments.
I shudder to think that people would buy at local hotels based on estate agent guff and babble.
Re tax laws........this is a key point.........for example in spain there is 25% tax on GROSS rent in a buy to let. So no expenses are deductible including mortgage interest.
How many of the estate agents tell you this or how many Sunday flashy ads tell you this in the small print under their "guarenteed yields"?!
Buyer beware!
Spend money on best tax and investment advice before taking the word of a salesman.
Walk the area yourself and talk to local letting agents etc.
Property is a fantastic investment but one needs to do serious research prior to investing.
With respect AAM cannot be all things to all people.
I for one think AAM are right to be cautious if potential investors are not prepared to get best advice prior to purchase.
 
Tourist booking numbers for Turkey are down by about 20% this year compared with the same month of the previous year -so far. Due to Avian Flue and fundamentalism.
 
The Turkey one looked good with the lease back, although it may not last the 10% for 10 years as quoted
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There are two general problems with this type of arrangement:
1. Resaleability, presumably many investors buy at the same time, thus numerous persons may be trying to sell on at the same time when the lease income dries up.
2. You have to look at who is guaranteeing the lease income - what is the likelihood of this company lasting for the 10yrs? You have to assure yourself that this company are'nt a fly by night operation who fold after year 3. The property should be able to maintain that rental income regardless of such deals, in otherwords, the local market should be willing to pay at least the same in rental income.
 
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