Is it legal to beg ?

G

GOBSTOPPER

Guest
Can anybody tell me if begging is legal ? my partner has a problem with Roma gypsies begging every day from her customers sitting outside her café in Dublin 2 ,(which she pays the council for the privilege of putting tables out). she has asked the garda patrolling the area and they just say they cant do anything as they are not doing anything wrong. They stand and hassle customers for a long time and its really uncomfortable for her and her customers, most Irish just politely say no. but alot of tourists are really badgered and you can see the fear in their faces.The same 12-15 girls and babies work the area every day like its their patch and i know alot of the businesses in the area are sick of them. why is our capital city allowed to be over run by these organized gangs and by groups ? drunks gathering for their daily booze up session on the liffey boardwalk and while the tourists Q up for the liffey boat ride they have to endure the sector of women and men sleeping on the benches with urine and vomit and cans and bottles and rubbish strewn all over ! OK rant over for now !
 
Thanks for that ,wow i cant believe there is no protection against this form of extortion ! any ideas on how we can counter this behavior ? any ideas welcome .we are at the end of our tether ! you pay your taxes ,rates,create jobs ,try to provide a nice environment for people to enjoy a relaxing moment during the day and these people just come and laugh in your face and hassle your customers ,in the full knowledge you cant do anything, I even had a Roma beggar telling me that i couldn't refuse to serve her as she was a minority person,(after begging off customers outside) i told her to take me to court. but they are obviously being couched by somebody.technically she is right ! I could be hauled in front of a court for discrimination.
 
It is illegal to use children when begging under the Childrens Act I think so maybe it can be addressed under this?

Also, while begging is not illegal, the Gardai do have powers under public order legislation if people are harassing members of the public.
 
I work in Dublin 2, and have to say these people are a real pest. I have to hand it to them though, the recently acquired a wheelchair, which thy pass amongst which ever of the crowd is begging that day, seems to be their next tool for extracting money out of people.

You gotta be real careful with them, they are ready to play the race card if there's a hint of agro.
 
There's a thing called the Mosquito which emits a high-pitched sound that forces young people to move away from the vicinity. Two downsides:

1. It only works on tennagers and those up to 20 years of age and
2. It will drive young customers away also.
 
ClubMan said:
The law making begging illegal . It's not illegal to beg.
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I think the judge was wrong. Are there any plans to frame a new law which satisfies the courts ?


I see children on the streets every day. I dont get it . Once a child is caught once then how is it allowed to happen twice ? What responsibility under the law do parents have in all of this ?
 
Wasn't there some recent talk that people affected by this device might be able to sue for assault? May have been baseless but I did read it somewhere.

stir crazy said:
I think the judge was wrong.
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What do you mean? He was wrong on a point of law or you just don't agree with the decision?
I see children on the streets every day. I dont get it . Once a child is caught once then how is it allowed to happen twice ? What responsibility under the law do parents have in all of this ?
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I think you can call the likes of the ISPCC, [broken link removed] (site down at the moment?) or Barnardos to report this and they will deal with it or alert the relevant authorities.
 
ClubMan said:
Wasn't there some recent talk that people affected by this device might be able to sue for assault? May have been baseless but I did read it somewhere.
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when that happens I'll sue for assault by inane ringtones
 
ClubMan said:
What do you mean? He was wrong on a point of law or you just don't agree with the decision?.
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From the RTE article :

'But the judge found that the section was unconstitutional because it interfered with the constitutional right of freedom of expression and freedom to communicate with other people'


I will put myself out on a limb here but I am willing to bet that the vast majority of peoples' view of Begging is

begging = harassment = anti social

I am so sick and tired of hearing the familiar skanger whine every time I wait by an ATM. Or to be unable to walk the streets without this aggressive begging in my face with kids in tow. On the way to Prague last week I had the misfortune to sit behind some Roma gypsies covered in jewellery (whos faces I know very well from Grafton street) who were obviously funding their holidays with the proceeds of begging. They were also unfortunately on the return flight with me. Theres no way they are poor. It was odd to encounter these particular people and find them not begging since I know their faces very well. I should have asked them for some money for a laugh. I wonder how kind they would have been to me if I had lost my wallet and needed bus fare.

I wouldn't like to argue law with a judge without having a judge of my own as counsel but theres such a thing as common sense in the implementation of the law. Theres the spirit in which a law was intended to be used. There are forms of expression and communication which are illegal like public nudity, certain types of porn and publicly calling for the over throw of the state etc. Based upon the article and using the Judge's logic about free communication between people being an absolute right these would all be legal.
 
Yes why does it happen ? I have a brother who works in the city with drug addicts, homeless teens ,and he said people really don't know the damage they do by giving to teens on the streets ,and the Roma gypsies . the teens sometimes pay for their pitch to a ringmaster/ criminal forced out to collect money to repay drug debts etc. some pitches are worth alot of money ! we all know the prime pitches which exist every weekend night catching the punters with a few jars on them.THIS IS A BUSINESS . if you want to be helpful donate to Simon or st.Vinnie's or similar charities who get the help where it is really needed.It is the culture of some Roma people to teach their children to beg and to steal ,its not the kids fault but if the parents keep getting off without penalty the business continues.
 
Gobstopper - of course its a business, but as long as people give it will continue.

When the smoking ban first came in I was regularly harrassed outside Cafe En Seine on Dawson street by gypsies begging - and they were intimidating! They had the timing down to a tee - harrass one set of people, wait 10/15 minutes, harrass next set of people. Bouncers couldnt do anything as they were on the door of the establishment so people were just being interrupted and harrassed all the time.
 
Stop giving and they will stop.
I've seen people give 5 & 10 euro notes to these people.

At least when it was illeagal the guards could arrest/move on/ detain or direct them to the correct services or call the social services to give them information on their entitlements.
 
While begging may not be illegal, harrassment and behaviour which could reasonably be assumed to make the average person uncomfortable or feel intimidated IS illegal.

There are also laws regarding child labour (which children begging is), running businesses/taxation, collecting money on streets etc.,

Like a lot of things in this country, laws do exist to deal with the problem, but our enforcement agencies dont do a good job of enforcement. Just because the ancient Vagrancy Act was taken out of use, it doesnt mean that anyone begging is exempt from ALL laws.
 
i had a problem last year with a problem neighbour and she moved out and a family of Roma's moved in..the house is spotless i must say but the comings and going are something else..
1 family of them were in spain for a month on holiday's and none of the family work..
they also take the kids out of school during the day and take them off begging door to door.
complain to the childerns charities and the Gardai especially when they have the kids.also look for the community garda to help you out
 
GOBSTOPPER said:
my partner has a problem with Roma gypsies begging every day
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GOBSTOPPER said:
I even had a Roma beggar telling me that i couldn't refuse to serve her as she was a minority person
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GOBSTOPPER said:
and the Roma gypsies

...

It is the culture of some Roma people to teach their children to beg and to steal
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truthseeker said:
When the smoking ban first came in I was regularly harrassed outside Cafe En Seine on Dawson street by gypsies begging
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therave said:
i had a problem last year with a problem neighbour and she moved out and a family of Roma's moved in..
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Funny - the vast majority of street and (less so these days) door to door beggars that I have come across are Irish. No chance this thread is simply an opportunity for some to target "bloody immigrants" yet again?
 
Actually had a begger knock on our door yesterday! An old Roma man asking for money. The other hall heard him out but I came down and told him we're not interested and shut the door in his face... Just say no!!!
 
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