Is auctioneer required to notify seller of higher bid

Hi All

Myself and my partner have been bidding on a house the last couple of weeks the asking price is €165,000 and our last offer went in on Thursday of €158,000 we then decided to stop but after long talks over the weekend we rang this morning to offer €165,000 only to be informed by the auctioneer that it went sale agreed on Friday at €160,000. The auctioneer informed us that they are not required to tell the seller is this true? We have full mortgage approval for the asking price.

Hope someone can guide us as we are FTB.

Thanks

Sorry to hijack thread. Have heard of a similar annoying episode this week with auctioneer - one of the main auctioneers in the country with branches everywhere. Individual enquires re a 2 bed apt not in Dublin. Told there's a bid of 70 k on it. Three business days later another relative enquires re making an appt to view and is told there are 3 separate bids of 95 k on it. The person enquiring says he is no longer interested in viewing but auctioneer says of course you should view it as he feels the 3 offers of 95 k have "fizzled out". There is no way this apt will make 95 k. I'm not speculating on house prices but the auctioneers behaviour is making my friend worried about viewing other properties with this company as there seems to be phantom bidders in the equation. Is there any legal protection for bidders against this scenario....it seems these guys are anything but professional ?

Phantom bids are nothing new we have experienced it and later got call that bidders had disappeared.
You may have heard that after Taxi drivers Auctioneers are the least trusted people in society?

Hello

Phantom bids are nothing new we have experienced it and later got call that bidders had disappeared.
You may have heard that after Taxi drivers Auctioneers are the least trusted people in society?
Browtal

If Thursday was a best and final offer situation then the auctioneer/seller has to honour the commitment to accept the highest bid at that time.
If it was not, can you call to the house (if occupied by the seller) or request/insist the auctioneer pass on your new offer to the seller?
I can see a dilemma for the auctioneer here - if the current highest bidder gets gazzumped, its the auctioneers reputation/credibility that gets damaged in process.

Hello,

Can you put each offer you make in writting and insist the auctioneer / sales agent acknowledge the offer in writting, or even by email ?

... if nothing else, this will give you evidence for the future, if the property is sold to another party and you later find the sale price on the web, so you could then in theory go after the sales person or their business.

There is a simple fact that people seem not to be giving much weight: the property is sale agreed.

It would be wrong of an estate agent to continue a selling effort once an agreement has been reached between the vendor and a purchaser.

While it is not illegal for the vendor to accept a higher offer after a sale has been agreed, many of us would consider it dishonourable.

@Padraigb
See my post 5

"if nothing else, this will give you evidence for the future, if the property is sold to another party and you later find the sale price on the web, so you could then in theory go after the sales person or their business. "

Go after. For what? There is no contractual relationship between a prospective purchaser and a selling agent.

And as above, the dealing stops at a certain stage. I know in recent transactions I have seen, some vendors will accept a lower price from a cash purchaser rather than go through the trauma of dealing with someone trying to extract a mortgage cheque from a lender!

mf

In my opinion you are being very unfair to Taxi drivers.

I'm gobsmacked by the support for gazumping here, particularly the suggestion that an auctioneer could be sued for refusing to entertain gazumping.

The op decided on Thursday to stop bidding and presumably indicated same to EA. Vendors decide on Friday to accept bid from other party. End of story...

laois1 said:

The person enquiring says he is no longer interested in viewing but auctioneer says of course you should view it as he feels the 3 offers of 95 k have "fizzled out".

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I've known sellers to also have their friends take the tour and put in phantom bids as well!!! There are so many potential players in this game that you have no way of knowing who the bad guys are....

ash26 said:

... and our last offer went in on Thursday of €158,000 we then decided to stop ...

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These are the dangers of the hardball negotiation game and, in choosing to use the 'last offer approach', you have to be prepared to take the consequences.

By placing your 'last offer' on Thursday, the agent was under no obligation to contact you if they received a higher offer or the same offer from a bidder with better circumstances.

Learn from it and put it behind you, hope you find what you're looking for.

T McGibney said:

I'm gobsmacked by the support for gazumping here, particularly the suggestion that an auctioneer could be sued for refusing to entertain gazumping.

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Exactly! Once the vendor has accepted an offer, the auctioneer's job is finished, plain and simple. If someone wants to make an offer to the vendor after that it is between them and to expect that the auctioneer can be compelled to engage in such practices is beyond believe. I can't recall any legislation under which such an action could be taken, but I'd be interested to hear them.

thank you all for taking the time to reply, it is our own fault for pulling out so we cant blame anyone but ourselves! fingers crossed something else will come up.

MrEarl said:

Hello,

Can you put each offer you make in writting and insist the auctioneer / sales agent acknowledge the offer in writting, or even by email ?

... if nothing else, this will give you evidence for the future, if the property is sold to another party and you later find the sale price on the web, so you could then in theory go after the sales person or their business.

Click to expand...

Hello,

I am very sorry but I misread the original post while trying to do two things at once, the result being I had incorrectly understood that the subsequent offer had gone in before, rather than after, the sale agreed.

Entirely my mistake and as a result, please disregard my suggestion.

I am only repeating from a survey conducted and published a few years ago. I have found Taxi drivers to be the salt of the earth.
Browtal

ash26 said:

thank you all for taking the time to reply, it is our own fault for pulling out so we cant blame anyone but ourselves! fingers crossed something else will come up.

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I can appreciate the points of the others with respect to gazumping and the requirements/obligations of the auctioneer and I know that this thread is about whether the Auctioneer is obliged to pass on the bid but ....

- let's look at this from the OP and the sellers, current buyers and auctioneers point of view.

OP - found a house they really want and decided over the weekend to up their final offer by 7,000 euro and informed auctioneer of same. I don't see why they should give up - property has only gone Sale agreed - it's not sold. Contracts / money will not have been exchanged. If I was OP I would pursue this property and let sellers know of an additional bid - a simple query to sellers, requesting whether they are open to further bids is not inappropriate.

Seller - accepted what they thought was final offer of €160k on Friday. Why shouldn't they be informed of an additional 5,000 offer which would bring property to their asking price ? 5k could mean a huge amount to their daily lives. Also remember there will be no contracts exchanged - buyer can pull out at any stage. Seller has no protection here.

Auctioneer - Obviously feel their job is done - but they should be acting in the interest of their client, not the buyers. So unless the seller has informed them to take property off the market, remove all signage etc, and not to pass on further communications with regard to bids - then their job is not done. The deal has not been closed.

Current Buyers - Obviously going to be happy they got a property at 160k but they can still pull out of the deal at any stage or find another property they like.

OP - buying a house should be treated like a business - if you see a contract / market opportunity you want to win then you should chase it - don't stand meekly to the side and let a middleman make the decisions.

nai said:

I can appreciate the points of the others with respect to gazumping and the requirements/obligations of the auctioneer and I know that this thread is about whether the Auctioneer is obliged to pass on the bid but ....

- let's look at this from the OP and the sellers, current buyers and auctioneers point of view.

OP - found a house they really want and decided over the weekend to up their final offer by 7,000 euro and informed auctioneer of same. I don't see why they should give up - property has only gone Sale agreed - it's not sold. Contracts / money will not have been exchanged. If I was OP I would pursue this property and let sellers know of an additional bid - a simple query to sellers, requesting whether they are open to further bids is not inappropriate.

Seller - accepted what they thought was final offer of €160k on Friday. Why shouldn't they be informed of an additional 5,000 offer which would bring property to their asking price ? 5k could mean a huge amount to their daily lives. Also remember there will be no contracts exchanged - buyer can pull out at any stage. Seller has no protection here.

Auctioneer - Obviously feel their job is done - but they should be acting in the interest of their client, not the buyers. So unless the seller has informed them to take property off the market, remove all signage etc, and not to pass on further communications with regard to bids - then their job is not done. The deal has not been closed.

Current Buyers - Obviously going to be happy they got a property at 160k but they can still pull out of the deal at any stage or find another property they like.

OP - buying a house should be treated like a business - if you see a contract / market opportunity you want to win then you should chase it - don't stand meekly to the side and let a middleman make the decisions.

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Perhaps more creedence should be given to the Current Buyers and to fairness? The Current Buyers have had their bid accepted, if they are gazumped at this stage how is that fair to them? Also, the OP could then pull out of the sale at any time they like too.

I find your advice on all fours with the beggar my neighbour attitude that led the economy to where it is now, it's all me, me, me.