Irish Times "Why landlords are selling up: taxes, regulation and fear of Sinn Féin"

fidelcastro said:
Even so, previously let houses dont disappear, and are bought by people needing housing (private or local authority).
So is there a problem?
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This has been repeated constantly. I'll try and explain it simply. If you have 10 houses and that's the entire rental sector in Ireland. And you sell them all to owner occupiers. You now have no rental sector.

Do you think there is a problem now???
 
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PebbleBeach2020 said:
It you have 10 houses and that's the entries rental sector in Ireland. And you sell them to owner occupiers. You now have no rental sector.
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And the 10 owner occupiers... where did they live previously? Tents?

Surely, that's 10 less looking for a rental property, so it evens itself out.

The issue to me, is that there aren't enough rental properties in the pool at the outset.

I can't see this issue ever having a resolution. Population in Ireland is only going to keep rising. The cost of building accommodation is only going to keep rising. Builders won't build at a loss. Accommodation is never going to be able to meet demand.

One of the biggest mistakes officialdom made was to outlaw bedsits. There was nothing wrong with them. At the start of my working life, I lived in one and it suited my needs perfectly. They'll never come back because people's expectations have exploded.
 
Hi fidel

That is a very good point which is similar to the one I have often raised about repossessions. Repossessing a house when someone isn't paying their mortgage has no net effect on homelessness.

However, we need both a rental sector and a home ownership sector. So the renters' loss is the home ownerships' gain.

Brendan
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Hi fidel

That is a very good point which is similar to the one I have often raised about repossessions. Repossessing a house when someone isn't paying their mortgage has no net effect on homelessness.

However, we need both a rental sector and a home ownership sector. So the renters' loss is the home ownerships' gain.

Brendan
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I think there's a subtle difference here. How underutilised is the current housing stock?

A rental in the current market is likely to have all bedrooms occupied.I'd well imagine many fully utilised 3 bed rental properties that are sold are bought by a couple i e., 2 people. At best losing a rental will be neutral but I would think it's a negative for housing the current population.

As for the repossessions. We know there are plenty of empty nesters in big house that are owned. But after these the folk at risk of repossession? Probably not.
 
What @skrooge describes above reflects what we see in our area. Owners in 3/4 bed homes have 1-3 rooms to spare. Renters fill the houses. Rent-a-room seems to have made a big difference to this.
 
If rented properties can only be sold with the tenant in situ, there’s the problem. Owner Occupiers won’t buy and the only market will be to an investor and as article states landlords are leaving the market not investing in it.
Legislation as proposed by Sinn Fein will suit current tenants, particularly if they are in a rent pressure zone and inflation continues around 9% but will do nothing for future tenants.
 
Let's say all private rentals are sold to owner-occupiers,would this solve a problem?I don't think so.Housing demand is like an expanding balloon and besides some people cannot afford to buy,others don't want to buy and others are quite content to join the Hap scheme and not worry about gas boilers ,washing machines, leaking taps,weeds ,mowing grass and a myriad other issues.Patience is the Renter's friend here,get your name on the Social Housing List and sit it out.Oh and those call outs are free, the Landlord is not paid for sorting out those problems and cannot claim Tax relief for his own time and travel-ya know in some ways it's a no-brainer.However I do think it quit worrying(and I sincerely empathise) for the vast majority of people with families who rent and who dread that termination notice in the letter box.I can only conclude that we need Landlords to stay in the market ,it's really a question of how we achieve that
 
Maybe someone could help me out here.Just read Times article mentioned above.Sinn Fein policy will allow sale of property but only with Tenants in situ-will this preclude purchase of property by prospective owner occupier?.If such properties are marked down by let's say20% would they not be attractive to investors who anticipate tenants may leave within a certain period of time and where the rent was not below market value.The article mentioned a case of a renovation and gave the example of costs of 40,000 on which you could claim 10%over 10 years.I have understood(perhaps incorrectly) that monies spent to increase the asset value were allowable at point of sale
 
triggs said:
sale of property but only with Tenants in situ-will this preclude purchase of property by prospective owner occupier?.If such properties are marked down by let's say20% would they not be attractive to investors who anticipate tenants may leave within a certain period of time and where the rent was not below market value.
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Currently, it would limit market to cash purchasers only.
 
All of that makes sense. But what about new households that are being created every day?

People’s kids moving-out of the family home into their own home.

e.g. Mr & Mes Gekko buy a place together, moving-out of their parents’ homes, the net effect being ‘-1’ to the housing stock.
 
There's more to rental then just simple housing numbers. A functioning rental sector allow people to move around the country. Imagine trying to go to college or start a new job away from home without rentals.

It also greases the wheels of the owner-occupied market. For many looking to trade up they need a place in-between selling and purchasing.
 
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indo today.Rental withdrawals reaches crisis.It is time our elected representatives stepped up to the plate.landlords are running scared of populist disjointed policy of an opposition party with years to go before a General Election.Surely we can do better than this.Nothing to fear but fear itself.
 
PaddyBloggit said:
And the 10 owner occupiers... where did they live previously? Tents?

Surely, that's 10 less looking for a rental property, so it evens itself out.

The issue to me, is that there aren't enough rental properties in the pool at the outset.

I can't see this issue ever having a resolution. Population in Ireland is only going to keep rising. The cost of building accommodation is only going to keep rising. Builders won't build at a loss. Accommodation is never going to be able to meet demand.

One of the biggest mistakes officialdom made was to outlaw bedsits. There was nothing wrong with them. At the start of my working life, I lived in one and it suited my needs perfectly. They'll never come back because people's expectations have exploded.
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If it evened itself out this thread wouldn't exist.
 
triggs said:
indo today.Rental withdrawals reaches crisis.It is time our elected representatives stepped up to the plate.landlords are running scared of populist disjointed policy of an opposition party with years to go before a General Election.Surely we can do better than this.Nothing to fear but fear itself.
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They are running from high risks that deliver a poor return on investment, even a loss if you get caught in a bad situation, with no mitigating protection from legislation that is heavily against the LL and especially against the small LL.

If they want to rentals to be long term sold with tenants in situ, then has to be reduction in the risks, for the LL.
 
PebbleBeach2020 said:
This has been repeated constantly. I'll try and explain it simply. If you have 10 houses and that's the entire rental sector in Ireland. And you sell them all to owner occupiers. You now have no rental sector.

Do you think there is a problem now???
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No, because 10 families, who were renting, now have their own place. Did the house disappear ?, no, it did not, it just changed ownership to private or local authority or whatever.
 
fidelcastro said:
No, because 10 families, who were renting, now have their own place. Did the house disappear ?, no, it did not, it just changed ownership to private or local authority or whatever.
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Properties come in three types: owner-occupied, social rental, and private rental.

In the above example the number of properties doesn't change of course, just their ownership to either owner occupancy or social rental.

So do you think the optimal mix of property use in Ireland includes 0% private rental?
 
fidelcastro said:
No, because 10 families, who were renting, now have their own place. Did the house disappear ?, no, it did not, it just changed ownership to private or local authority or whatever.
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That's quite an assumption, eg

Gordon Gekko said:
People’s kids moving-out of the family home into their own home.

e.g. Mr & Mes Gekko buy a place together, moving-out of their parents’ homes, the net effect being ‘-1’ to the housing stock.
Click to expand...
 
fidelcastro said:
No, because 10 families, who were renting, now have their own place. Did the house disappear ?, no, it did not, it just changed ownership to private or local authority or whatever.
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You misunderstand the question. There are not only 10 families. Only 10 rentals. What will anyone rent if there are no rentals?
 
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