Complainer
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The results may speak for themselves, but they certainly don't speak for the quality of the school. They don't measure where the inputs came from. They don't measure the level of the pupils when they started school. They don't measure grinds or parental involvement.You're putting words in my mouth to support your argument. I'm not having one. Only leaving cert results count when entering third level.
Not true. For many families, the idea of €3k-€5k per child per year, on top of the many existing costs of education is completely unmanageable and unattainable. It is not within their wildest dreams.Complainer, You are absolutely correct about what such a league table doesn't tell you. Unfortunately you are equally wrong about the financial standing. There are people from a diverse range of financial backgrounds, like there is in non-fee paying schools. It tells you about parents willingness to invest in education regardless of how easily they can afford it.
Not true. For many families, the idea of €3k-€5k per child per year, on top of the many existing costs of education is completely unmanageable and unattainable. It is not within their wildest dreams.
Yesterday's Times sold out very quickly - is there a link to an online version of the league table, or will it be a while before they make it available online?
If you're suggesting that these league tables show which schools are better, you're wrong. They don't measure the quality of the school. They don't measure the students abilities when they entered the school, so they can't show how much of their development was down to the school. They don't measure how many students get grinds. They don't measure how many parents have web access or access to other resources. They don't measure the quality of the school. They measure the social and financial standing of the parents of kids attending that school
There are people from a diverse range of financial backgrounds, like there is in non-fee paying schools. It tells you about parents willingness to invest in education regardless of how easily they can afford it.
Oh come on, of course environment has a big role to play. The school itself is very important, peers, teacher quality, equipment, ambition, etc.
They invested financially, logistically and with their time in all sorts of ways to support the type of education they wanted for me from the moment I was born until the moment I left college.
Trying to find the lowest common denominator in the name of equality does not serve society or the economy well.
Is this meant to imply that the State schools should not be expected to provide a decent level of education for all?
Hi Mel,
Were you able to get a link to this list by any chance?
The recent Sunday Times list for Ireland is here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00681/The_top_400_seconda_681535a.pdf
Thanks,
Firefly.
Unfortunately, they have perpetuated the myth that 'performance' equates to students getting places in universities.These league tables have been useful in slaying some myths about various schools performances in my area.
No, not true, you are endeavouring to read between the lines rather than take what I said at face value.
I believe the state should provide a much higher level of education than it does now. If I had my way I would divert half of what is currently spent on child benefit in to the schools. Schools would provide meals for the students and would have after school activities including sports, further education etc.
If some schools had to be amalgamated to make this practical, so be it. Make Child Benefit work for children!
Thanks for this; do you by any chance know if it is an older list, or the latest? It looks similar to what I've seen before. It's based on 2008/2009 results, but maybe there is a delay in releasing the statistics?
1. Inaccuracy
In previous years (and I have little reason to believe this year is any different) these so called lists were inaccurate, didn't count those who went to private colleges (such as the Royal College of Surgeons), didn't count those who went to Universities abroad and didn't count those who deferred their 3rd level place.
...For many families, the idea of €3k-€5k per child per year, on top of the many existing costs of education is completely unmanageable and unattainable. It is not within their wildest dreams.
Nor should it be - they should be entitled to get the best education for their child in their local public school. And many of them do. One of the ironies of the Celtic Tiger flood to private secondary schools was that some of the public schools were left with great pupil teacher ratios, leaving lots of time for good old-fashioned teaching by good old-fashioned teachers.
Approximately 95% of my year went to university, placing the school at the top of the league tables for that particular year. The average Leaving Certificate result in our year was 510 points. These are certainly impressive statistics, but they don't tell the full story.
300 people sat the entrance exam in 6th class. Of those 300, the top 60 candidates were invited back for interview. Of those 60, 30 were invited to attend the school. In order to attend the school, the students' parents had to be in a position to pay the substantial fees. Two places were made available for students whose parents couldn't afford the fees (on the basis of those students' academic ability).
What goes on in these schools is nothing more than selective breeding. By harvesting kids with the best chance of doing well academically (i.e. intelligent kids from middle to upper middle class backgrounds), it's inevitable that the schools will top the league tables.
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