Irish Life MAP funds

I am sitting on quite a bit of cash, and will need to keep €50/€70k for a deposit on an apartment I'd be looking to buy relatively shortly.

Other than that looking at what to do with the remainder. Had a free call with Irish Life yesterday and they recommend MAP 6 fund - 1% government fee and 1.2% management fee then the 41% exit tax.

What are the general consensus for these funds? Avoid, worth putting a bit in it?

I'll also be putting a bit in a SP500 etf

High cost and opaque, in my opinion.

The MAP 6 also seems high risk to me since you will need the money shortly. (Edit: I misunderstood)

I don't need this money for long term - would be at least a 5+ year investment term.

What I need short term will be put into short term bonds/debt/prizebonds etc

Splitting it between a fund and an ETF may look like diversification but it's really the worst of both worlds - the fund overlaps much of SP500 and you still have the administration of deemed disposal on the ETF. I would choose one or the other.

user180224 said:

I am sitting on quite a bit of cash, and will need to keep €50/€70k for a deposit on an apartment I'd be looking to buy relatively shortly.

Other than that looking at what to do with the remainder. Had a free call with Irish Life yesterday and they recommend MAP 6 fund - 1% government fee and 1.2% management fee then the 41% exit tax.

What are the general consensus for these funds? Avoid, worth putting a bit in it?

I'll also be putting a bit in a SP500 etf

Click to expand...

Run, run a mile from MAPs and then run further. Speak to one of the advisers on here

Okay, I've booked in with truewealth.ie for this week, but happy to get more advise on better advisors to use

I'd be pretty confident that no matter which advisor you went to that the vast majority of them would recommend the same company based on a preference for a higher risk Multi-Asset Fund, because past performance will come up. But, bear in mind that any comparison you're shown on these funds is most likely not on an exact like-for-like basis.

So, your focus should probably be on the charging structures offered and the service provided.

• Most companies have pricing structures that include the cost of the Governmernt Levy ie. 101% allocation. If you got 100% allocation then it's the equivalent of having an additional circa 0.15% pa drag on your investment
• The AMC may or may not include a trail commission eg. 0.75% to company and 0.25% to intermediary
• The product may have early encashment charges in the first few (3/5) years of the contract
• Each fund will have Other Ongoing Costs (OOCs probably 0.05/0.10% depending on fund and provider).
• Each Fund will have Portfolio Transaction Costs. These are included in the fund price/performance figures of the providers, along wth the OOCs.

Coffeeortea said:

Run, run a mile from MAPs and then run further. Speak to one of the advisers on here

Click to expand...

Why run a mile? I'm investing a much smaller sum via a monthly DD and chose it primarily for convenience. I do hope to keep this investment for the medium term, but every now and then I feel discomfort when I come across comments like this. As someone with little investment experience I can find it all quite confusing. I know each to their own when it comes to investment, but its always useful to look for better ways of doing things where possible.

Because the annual management charges you are paying are way over the top and far better deals are available from other providers ?

Would truewealth.ie be considered a good advisor or are there other recommendations people can make?

Flybytheseat said:

Because the annual management charges you are paying are way over the top and far better deals are available from other providers ?

Click to expand...

Could you let me know the names of such other providers please

user32 said:

Could you let me know the names of such other providers please

Click to expand...

I think all providers have similar funds. Off the top of my head Zurich and Standard Life offer them, and possibly offer passive versions.

This is not financial advice but Zurich have a good fund called dynamic. Your can compare their past performance in a website called Irish Times fund lite. I've got savings in that and 10% in their top tech fund.

Past performance does not predict future returns etc. Good luck.

Look at MAPS performance YUUUKK!

Homepayer said:

Your can compare their past performance in a website called Irish Times fund lite.

Click to expand...

It's not the most reliable source of this kind of information. There isn't a Multi-Asset Category (in the context of the query on this post) so you have to trawl through each company and have an idea of what their Mulit-Asset Fund/s is/are called.

You'd have to maybe choose 2 providers from the output and then go those providers websites to nail down the information further. For example, it doesn't tell you the actual dates that the fund prices relate or, whether no AMC, part of the AMC or a specific AMC is included in the output.

But, as you say, no indicator whatsoever as to what might happen in the future.

Coming to the end of a Level 3 & 4 MAPS fund. Got slammed during covid, loosing c.23% @ Medium Risk. Took years to slowly recover initial investment. Average earning per year over 6 years is c.0.9%. Doing ok now, they all are, but its below other Multi Asset funds. I'd say they employ graduates to run these funds and ride out the term to reap the management fee.. worthless waste of time. Bank advised MAPs so I withdrew all my savings this year & moved elsewhere, Manager stopped me at the desk, not happy! I will close Maps as soon as I can, no reason to stay with poor performing institutions that are serving themselves. Be cautious, a lot of worthless information on this front thanks to social media and realistic returns are low.

Thanks all, as I had only opened my MAPs fund in mid 2023 I'm tied down to atleast keeping the savings in there for another few years. With regards to future direct debits, would it be worthwhile setting one up with one of the other providers to cut my losses and make the transition early?

user32 said:

With regards to future direct debits, would it be worthwhile setting one up with one of the other providers to cut my losses and make the transition early?

Click to expand...

Impossible to say without something like a Money Makeover allowing people to offer feedback and suggestions in the context of a better understanding of your overall personal and financial circumstances.

@user32

Can you give us some background on how and why you bought the original policy? And, why, just two years into the long-term savings plan (?) you're now wanting to change it?

Is it just that you were sold (or you bought) the current one (with advice) and that it was after you signed up to it that you decided to do research or further research? You're now in the buyers remorse phase?

This is the third time this kind of query has come up over the last few days here and it might help others who are in the market for such products to understand the plan/process a bit better.

Why are you tied down to saving in there for another few years? Are you saying you have to keep putting money into it or are you saying that you'll get hit with exit penalties if you exit before 5 (?) years and stop paying now? Have you looked at the policy terms and conditions on this? Have you asked the advisor who sold you the plan to explain the implications (charges and tax) of 'cutting your losses', as you call it? What did they say?

Are you thinking of setting one up with another provider with, or without advice? If it's without, are you sure you're comfortable with that?

@GSheehy

Sure, I have private Health Insurance with the same provider, they offer a service to get financial advice and I was effectively upsold this savings plan. Honestly, it had been something I had been meaning to do for some time (set up a monthly DD that would have some level of friction in withdrawing and invested for ~ 5 years allowing me time to build up a solid amount of savings for a deposit on a house etc.), given it seemed to be exactly what I was looking for I scanned the documents and went for it in relief at having found something that would achieve what I wanted. Then I came across this website and read a number of threads. This comment above in particular grabbed my attention:

Run, run a mile from MAPs and then run further. Speak to one of the advisers on here

Click to expand...

So yes, buyers remorse while also being aware I made the decision with what I knew at that time. That, paired with the additional context of having been unable to find something that resembled what I wanted and made sense to me with the traditional banks or via ETFs (inadequate knowledge on my part) lead me to entering this plan.

I'm tied down to keeping the savings in there for the next few years as they have clause on early withdrawals, whereby a % is taken if I withdraw within 5 years (i.e. the friction I mentioned above). So yes its just exit penalties, I can halt payments with no penalties whatsoever. That is why I'm wondering if it is worth taking that approach, and running the same personal savings mechanism with two different providers, rather than simply giving into inertia and the sunk cost fallacy. I incorrectly said that it would be 'cutting my loses', rather the change would be something I'd consider if I really am missing out on much better products elsewhere. Of course now I have the additional consideration that any new product I invest in will likely reset the timer for exit penalties on new deposits for another ~ 5 years but given the HTB scheme and what I've built up so far in my existing plan, and my current position, I don't think that would perturb me at this stage.

I would be in favour of doing it with advice, but given I don't have a familial or social network that is interested in this type of thing, I'm unsure who to trust in terms of providing advice. Especially given my previous venture for financial advice, according to the thread above, left me with a sub-optimal product.

From mid 2023 to now you should have done well with the fund. Better than bank deposit, despite the charges (whatever they might be). Could you have bought something with lower costs, yes, but I doubt that you have the knowledge to DIY and no guarantre that if you bought it though an advisor you wouldn't be in the same place. The 'going rate', from the brokerage name that comes up the most is AMC 1.5%. Maybe the new brokerage that purchased them are on a cost recovery mission. But, there are other higher AMC savings contracts available to intermediaries to sell because the actuaries who price these products have FOMO nightmares, on new buisiness.

This whole 5 year (minimum) term is a bit of a lottery. 7 / 10 years minimum should be what's 'sold'.

You'd probably be okay if you were just going the 5 years here. Your alternative is to just redirect the regular contribution to something on this page

The whole run a mile comment may have been a bit sensational. The poster hasn't been seen since so we're not sure exactly what they meant. The general consensus from the advisors on here is that they don't place business with that provider. There may be multiple reasons but some of that is pricing/costs. Just my view, but if you're the provider of choice for banks then it's all about money for the shareholder and not the policyholder.