Home Insurance not covering subsidence due to water escaping

[corksub]

I have read previous subsidence threads and am even more confused.

We bought the house 8 years ago second-hand in cork (Glanmire area)built sideways on a steep hill. it passed a buyers survey. It is now over 10 years old.
Our house came with the addition of a conservatory which the previous owner had added to the estate developers' inital design. We have no idea who the builder was. There are cracks visible internally and externally where the conservatory is detaching from the main house wall and the external patio slabs in that corner on the downhill side of the house) are all loose, uneven or in one case all rippled upwards like a minor landslide has occurred. Drainage and guttering around the house is terrible in general and we seem to be missing a small retaining wall extending out into the garden that our uphill neighbour has.

We suspect a house two doors down had subsidence problems since we bought which were fixed by the estate developer. its rented and we dont know the owner.

(q1) Our insurers policy document states they do not cover subsidence "from escape of water" and only due to soil movement - but this is pretty much most subsidence in Ireland - Im confused to be honest about these definitions? Sure the soil moves because the water is washing it downhill?

other threads warn we should first make a "broken pipes" claim which is covered I think and not a subsidence claim that may not be?

other threads give conflicting advice on who to contact first - your own independent engineer / dynorod (who cost a lot of money we dont have),
or going direct first to the insurer who sends round a loss adjuster (free) but who is biased to say there is no provable subsidence or its due to water escaping which our insurer does not cover.

So My other question is:

(2) Who do we approach first -
the estate developer to say the drainiage is substandard and why no retaining wall? (its over 10 years old)
or
the insurer
or
Spend money we dont have on an independent consultant engineeer or surveyor to find out if we definitely have a susidence or drainage problem? but then once we have it we may not be covered and have to repair ourselves or risk not being uninsurable / unsaleable in future.

please help.

 

[Claimsman]

I have read previous subsidence threads and am even more confused.

We bought the house 8 years ago second-hand in cork (Glanmire area)built sideways on a steep hill. it passed a buyers survey. It is now over 10 years old.
Our house came with the addition of a conservatory which the previous owner had added to the estate developers' inital design. We have no idea who the builder was. There are cracks visible internally and externally where the conservatory is detaching from the main house wall and the external patio slabs in that corner on the downhill side of the house) are all loose, uneven or in one case all rippled upwards like a minor landslide has occurred. Drainage and guttering around the house is terrible in general and we seem to be missing a small retaining wall extending out into the garden that our uphill neighbour has.

We suspect a house two doors down had subsidence problems since we bought which were fixed by the estate developer. its rented and we dont know the owner.

(q1) Our insurers policy document states they do not cover subsidence "from escape of water" and only due to soil movement - but this is pretty much most subsidence in Ireland - Im confused to be honest about these definitions? Sure the soil moves because the water is washing it downhill?

other threads warn we should first make a "broken pipes" claim which is covered I think and not a subsidence claim that may not be?

other threads give conflicting advice on who to contact first - your own independent engineer / dynorod (who cost a lot of money we dont have),
or going direct first to the insurer who sends round a loss adjuster (free) but who is biased to say there is no provable subsidence or its due to water escaping which our insurer does not cover.

So My other question is:

(2) Who do we approach first -
the estate developer to say the drainiage is substandard and why no retaining wall? (its over 10 years old)
or
the insurer
or
Spend money we dont have on an independent consultant engineeer or surveyor to find out if we definitely have a susidence or drainage problem? but then once we have it we may not be covered and have to repair ourselves or risk not being uninsurable / unsaleable in future.

please help.

Loss adjusters are not biased. Loss Adjusters will deal with your claim under the terms and conditions of your policy.

I would suggest that you notify your insurance company of a potential claim. They will in all liklihood appoint a Loss Adjuster. The adjuster will visit your property and discuss with you what your options are and what you need to do in order to demonstrate whether the damage to your property is covered by the policy. You can also address all of your concerns as outlined above to the Loss Adjuster. The Loss Adjuster ( or indeed the Insurers upon notification of the claim) will outline to you of your entitlement to appoint your own regulated loss assessor, at your own cost.

This professional unbiased advice will be provided without an invoice being issued to you. However, in order to demonstrate that your loss is covered by the policy, you will have to incur costs that will not be recoverable under your policy if the damage is excluded by the policy.

 

[corksub]

Thanks for your reply. I'm mnot sure I understand this bit though sorry - "However, in order to demonstrate that your loss is covered by the policy, you will have to incur costs that will not be recoverable under your policy if the damage is excluded by the policy. "

Do you mean that if they say its not covered I will then have to pay an independent engineer to do an appeal report which does make a stronger case for the claim being legitmate and covered?

 

[corksub]

Also can anyone clafiry please what "subsidence to due to water escaping not being covered" means - is it because of recent flooding claims in cork?
we are on the side of a hill nowhere near a river etc but water is flowing downhill washing the soil away

 

[Claimsman]

The onus is upon the policyholder to demonstrate to insurers that the damage to your property is due to the operation of an insured peril. You must prove to insurers that the damage is due to an insured peril. In addition, costs associated with the preparation of a claim are not covered. In the case of a subsidence claim, proving the damage is covered will normally include exposing of pipework ( drains), cctv of drains, testing of water to determine origin of this, exposing of foundations and/or soil bearing tests. If the damage to your property, following these investigative works, is not covered by your policy, then insurers will not meet any of the costs that you have incurred ( including your consulting Engineers costs) in endeavouring to prove that the damage is covered by the policy. You will be left to meet those costs from your own account. Insurers will( and frequently do)walk away and you will be left with the bill.

Some insurers have introduced a new exclusion to their policy in relation to subsidence. This is that if subsidence occurs due to an escape of water from a pipe, they will not pay for the cost of repairs..ie, leaking drain has resulted in washing away of fines from load bearing soil, causing downward movement of site, followed by differential movement of the building which then cracks.. that will not covered by policy. I would suspect that this will be a common exclusion to all household policies within the near future. This has nothing to do with the recent floods in Cork. It is got to do with the proliferation of subsidence claims in the Cork area over the past 20 years or more due to leaking drains.

 

[Plantplot]

There are a few online insurers who offer discount insurance rates and holiday rental home insurance. Maybe give them a try. You can just google 'discount insurance ireland' and a few will come up. Hope this helps.