IKEA Planning Appeal

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tallpaul

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I see that the oral hearing for the IKEA in Ballymun is starting today.

With a bit of luck someone will see sense and knock this monstrosity on the head. Apparently if this opens, all the effort and taxpayers money spent on the M50 will be for nothing. Surely we will have the best of both worlds with the IKEA in Belfast: IKEA on this island and all the nightmareish traffic will be a problem for Belfast not Dublin.
 
Do what they do in America; charge the retailer for the necessary upgrade to the transport infrastructure. When it's all in place then let them build their shop.
 
or why not build it on a green field site in the midlands somewhere, if people go to Glasgow/ UK they surely could make it out there. I find the "500 jobs, a bit of a moot point - surely wherever they locate they will fill the jobs.
 
nelly said:
or why not build it on a green field site in the midlands somewhere, if people go to Glasgow/ UK they surely could make it out there. I find the "500 jobs, a bit of a moot point - surely wherever they locate they will fill the jobs.
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I agree-somewhere like the midlands would be better, and allow more of the country to have easier access.

Purple-it's fine to say 'charge IKEA' (and I would have no problem with the idea), but is there any way to site this so close to the M50 without causing problems? Or are you suggesting that the Government/local authority propose to charge IKEA so that they would be forced to seek an alternative site?

The Ballymun spokesman on Newstalk this morning said that the M50 wouldn't be affected at peak times as the store wouldn't open until 10am, but I would be just as concerned with the effect on Saturdays and Sundays-where traffic is already bad enough IMHO.
 
So we now punish a company that wants to bring cheaper prices and create jobs for the failures of our politicans to see more than 2 weeks into the future and rather taking envelopes than using common sense?

There are now restrictions on their opening times to avoid rush hour on the M50, which I think is fair.

I don't see any restrictions on when people are allowed to leave the new apartment/housing mega complex next to the M50 which surley is creating more traffic than the IKEA store.

Why should the incompetence of our politicans and traffic managers force me to drive to Belfast to purchase IKEA, if they are willing to come to a place near to me?

Surley they made concessions (size, opening times, parking spaces), so why not find a compromise rather than banning them?

Instead of banning them we should overhaul our public transport system and look more into the future than 2 weeks when building new roads.

I used to be an M50 victim, I had to go to the office in Sandyford from Swords once or twice a week and used to stand in the M50 for 1-2 hours, now I use the port tunnel and do it in 30 minutes. Well worth the 12 €.
 
Its not fair to deprive the Irish people of the joys and choice that IKEA offer, as a result of the lack of planning and investment in our roads infastructure. In every other counrty that IKEA operate in there are lots of cars on the roads, but the infastructure is in place to cope.
Does it take a shop to want to open in Ireland for society to realise that this government has squandered the biggest opportunity to invest in our infastructure -ever? What they are at now is years too late-10-15years too late.
If they build it-the roads will come. That is the reactionary approach or this government. IKEA to be our field of dreams-and ease our pain-eventually!
 
Luternau said:
Its not fair to deprive the Irish people of the joys and choice that IKEA offer, as a result of the lack of planning and investment in our roads infastructure. In every other counrty that IKEA operate in there are lots of cars on the roads, but the infastructure is in place to cope.
Does it take a shop to want to open in Ireland for society to realise that this government has squandered the biggest opportunity to invest in our infastructure -ever? What they are at now is years too late-10-15years too late.
If they build it-the roads will come. That is the reactionary approach or this government. IKEA to be our field of dreams-and ease our pain-eventually!
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Do you do PR for them?!
 
DublinTexas said:
So we now punish a company that wants to bring cheaper prices and create jobs for the failures of our politicans to see more than 2 weeks into the future and rather taking envelopes than using common sense?
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I have absolutely no objection with IKEA coming to Ireland. A midlands site would be fair to more of the rest of the country, as well as those of us who use the M50 but have no interest in IKEA.

I don't see why we should go to such great lengths to accomodate IKEA. 500 jobs would be welcome I am sure, but why not offer them a greenfield site with good access to one of the other motorways? The law was already amended to allow them to build a store of their desired size-no other retailers are permitted to build a store of the size that IKEA wants.

Why not attempt to attract 500 jobs that are more in keeping with our goal of building a 'knowledge economy' rather than jobs that depend heavily on consumer spending and the construction industry?

The M50 is a mess, I agree. But allowing IKEA to build at the proposed site will only make it worse. I don't think people need to see that-if they are not annoyed enough with the current state of the M50 and surrounding infrastructure to 'punish' those responsible, then I doubt they ever will be.

DublinTexas said:
I don't see any restrictions on when people are allowed to leave the new apartment/housing mega complex next to the M50 which surley is creating more traffic than the IKEA store.
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Have you any proof of this? Which development are you referring to? Would all the people living there drive to work? By the nature of its business, IKEA would surely attract a high volume of people in cars and at weekends?


DublinTexas said:
Instead of banning them we should overhaul our public transport system and look more into the future than 2 weeks when building new roads.
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I propose denying permission to build on their preferred site-not banning them from building full stop.

In fairness, the site in question is around a 1000 metres from the proposed metro stop. I just can't see that many people shopping for flat pack furniture taking the metro, but that's only an opinion.
 
400+ units at Mayeston Hall pushing traffic onto sillorge lane or st. margarates road is just an example of what is building near to the M50.

So the M50 can take that hit (or do we assume they all go down to town via the already overcrowed finglas/ballymun road)?

There have been at least 32 conditions had been placed on the development, more than half of which concern transport and traffic management plans, is that called "going great lengths to accomodate IKEA"?

Why should the main consumers (Dublin folk) drive half way to the midlands to go to a shop, they can have in easier reach?

Why do we have to punish companies for the failure of our politicans? 600 jobs (not 500) are up here (in a time when hundereds of jobs go week after week).

Do we really believe that the 1600 car parks are going to be full every hour?
Do we really believe that 1600+ customers are going to IKEA every hour, that would be 19200 in a normal day, 134.400 in a week and soon all 4.200.000 of us have been there in 31 weeks and IKEA closed again..

Certainly there is a demand for IKEA (otherwise they would not come) but I think we should not overplay it. There is not 0.5% of our population going to rush to IKEA every day.

I have nothing against restrictions that make sense (like opening times, finishing of ehancements to roads like new sliproads and finished upgrade to the Ballymun junction) but let's be fair here.

There is a perfectly good 12.7 acres side there (which otherwise I'm sure would have to cater for even more overprised apartments generating traffic), it has some good roads and before they open improvements will be made as part of the planing permission. Why force them to the midlands if some planing (and I hope we finaly find a planer with some sense) will improve the overall situation.

Why can't our city council people not be more like their counterparts in Dublin, CA which had no problem getting IKEA.
 
Why not encourage IKEA to build in the midlands? Why not take some of the strain off Dublin? Why not try to spread development around the country-the job losses you refer to didn't affect Dublin, did they? You can reach the midlands (Mullingar, Athlone etc) in around 1.5 hours from Dublin. Someone driving from Blackrock to Ballymun would probably take an hour. There is life and demand outside Dublin.

I'm actually not that concerned with people going to IKEA during the week. It would be the weekends that I'm pretty sure would attract the highest volume of traffic (along with the airport, Blanchardstown, Liffey Valley etc).

But sure what the hell. Let's just let them build and we'll see how it works out.
 
I’m not convinced by the talk about the jobs that will be created. IKEA and the like make big profits by selling large volumes of furniture per employee. As the amount of furniture required by the population in Ireland is not likely to change as a result of IKEA, other furniture retailers with a smaller sales to employee ratio will go out of business resulting on an overall Nett loss of jobs to the country.
 
Allen said:
... other furniture retailers with a smaller sales to employee ratio will go out of business resulting on an overall Nett loss of jobs to the country.
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I have considered that, however I do not believe that there is evidence that increased competition reduces employment. It may reduce profits of some furniture retailers but not jobs.
Lets face it some of these outlets have been creaming it for years, charging prices that bore no resemblence to what the items cost, and then offering hugely attractive sales prices that were more likely the true sales price. Some of this furniture was not high quality.IKEA do not do this. In IKEA you can buy latest trends in furniture, up to the minute design, at reasonable cost, and if you tire of it, replace it, and always be in decor fashion!!.
I am not sure that Ballymun is the best site for it, perhaps it could be down nearer Naas or somewhere similar. If the goverment are really serious about building the outer orbital motorway linking Naas with Drogheda, these are the places that they should be pushing larger retail outlets.
Unfortunately that last sentence began with 'If' and I am not sure that road will ever be built-they were just giving the needy coomuters of Ireland, hope where non exists!
 
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DublinTexas said:
Why should the main consumers (Dublin folk) drive half way to the midlands to go to a shop, they can have in easier reach?
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Surely it is this Dublin-centric type thinking that is the reason they are proposing to site IKEA in Ballymun. The obvious solution is to site it off the the 6-lane N7 or the new N6 to Galway. If you think about, putting IKEA in Athlone gives it a far larger catchment than just in Dublin. Of course the nearly €1 billion of taxpayers money being spent on the M50 will play perfectly into the hands of a private company. Effectively the state is paying to upgrade a road that will help to line the coffers of IKEA!!!:mad:

Only in Ireland...
 
Why should the main consumers (Dublin folk) drive half way to the midlands to go to a shop, they can have in easier reach?
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Why not just move out of Dublin and that would end all worries about traffic/M50/IKEA shops etc...?
 
It shouldn't be a question of 'giving them somewhere' in the midlands. This is a company who have spotted an opportunity and want to build. They bought the site based on their assessment of the market and other issues, they weren't given the site.

Sure, it might make more sense from a number of perspectives to have the place built elsewhere, but as long as we have poor spatial planning and a lack of regional infrastructure then who can blame companies like IKEA ? This site is near Dublin port, near Dublin airport, served by the 'so-called' orbital motorway linking the vast majority of the population of Dublin with a few KMs of motorway, and the catchment area of the M50 and associated motorway links is a significant proportion of the population of the entire country.

One thing to remember is that motorway junction/exit areas are suited for these type of developments exactly because they can bring a high volume of traffic to the site without impacting local feeder roads. Think about all the other sites at or near M50 junctions - Liffey Valley & Blanchardstown for example.

While most IKEA sites are situated near motorways, the one in Cardiff is situated in a brownfield site (ex gasworks by the looks of it) quite near the centre of the city. Doesn't seem to cause them any problems.

z
 
I have no problem with IKEA or the site but I do think that they should have to pay for any local infrastructural upgrades. It may well be the case that they have to do so anyway.
 
tallpaul said:
Surely it is this Dublin-centric type thinking that is the reason they are proposing to site IKEA in Ballymun. The obvious solution is to site it off the the 6-lane N7 or the new N6 to Galway. If you think about, putting IKEA in Athlone gives it a far larger catchment than just in Dublin. Of course the nearly €1 billion of taxpayers money being spent on the M50 will play perfectly into the hands of a private company. Effectively the state is paying to upgrade a road that will help to line the coffers of IKEA!!!:mad:

Only in Ireland...
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If my target group is in Dublin than I build in dublin, that has nothing to do with dublin-centric. It has to do with free market (something that in this country I sometimes think is a dirty word). If I want to catch people in Shannon than I build in Shannon.

The state or better the taxpayer and the road tax contributors are paying now for an upgrade of the M50 that corrupt politicans did not plan for years ago. Planing a 2 lane motor way arround dublin going over a narrow bridge (that is not even financed by the tax payer but rather creates money for the revenue and a private company) was a joke (and that joke is still repeated today over and over by building 2 tunnels instead of 3 and using 1 for public transportation with a "metro").

IKEA paid for the site (good money), they are willing to accept the conditions, they are willing to pay for needed infrastructure upgrades and still people complain. They have done the math and they have choosen Dublin rather than Athlone.

As Zag pointed out, the logistical infra is key (near port, near M1, near airport is good), why do you think TESCO has a large distribution center just there?

And who knows maybe if they see, that the profits they forecast are archiveable IKEA is opening another shop somewhere else? They are in the business of making money for Mr. Kamprad.

I for one think that IKEA is a good alternative and is going to bring competition (oh god another dirty word) to the market and hence the overbloated prices currently charges by some retailers will come down.

I'm sure in 2-3 years we are going to have at least another store somewhere in the country, that is they are allowed to build that one.
 
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