If I work until 3 pm and then went off sick is it classed as sick leave

Zeus2020

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need help with this ..long story short…I got the Pfizer vaccine booster Thursday felt fine for work Friday (7.45 to 8 15 shift) started to feel unwell around 3 pm was advised by administration office to go home have been on days off since. I still feel weak and am due back to work tomorrow if I stay out sick will I be classified as sick since Friday and have to send in cert to cover friday Saturday Sunday Monday or can I start from tomorrow…. what I really want to know is Friday a sick day even though I worked until 3 pm I work in the hse
 

Leper

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You have been sick for a half day (Friday) and a whole day (Monday) - if you were not scheduled to work Saturday and Sunday you do not have to provide a Medical Cert. The aforementioned is written in stone in the Civil/Public Service.

Back in the day as a union rep I represented many of my colleagues on that matter. However, some management wrongly count Saturday and Sunday as sick days (when illness starts on Friday). Not with me they didn't.
 

Allpartied

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You have been sick for a half day (Friday) and a whole day (Monday) - if you were not scheduled to work Saturday and Sunday you do not have to provide a Medical Cert. The aforementioned is written in stone in the Civil/Public Service.

Back in the day as a union rep I represented many of my colleagues on that matter. However, some management wrongly count Saturday and Sunday as sick days (when illness starts on Friday). Not with me they didn't.
Does this not depend on your roster? If you are 5/7, that is to say you work any 5 days in 7, the Saturday and Sunday are counted as sick days. Because, in theory, you could have been re-rostered to complete your weekly hours?
If you work 5/5 ( ie Mon to Fri) and Sat/Sun are always your nominated rest days, then they don't count as sick days.
 

SparkRite

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You have been sick for a half day (Friday) and a whole day (Monday) - if you were not scheduled to work Saturday and Sunday you do not have to provide a Medical Cert. The aforementioned is written in stone in the Civil/Public Service.
Has this changed since 2017 @Leper ?

From https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2017-06-20/393/
The following sets out the process, based on the Regulations, for calculating absence periods arising from sick leave in the context of the working week being Monday to Friday. Similar principles are applied in relation to other working patterns.


- A Saturday and Sunday are only counted towards an individual’s sick leave record if the sick leave spans the weekend. An absence on a Friday followed by an absence on the Monday is considered to have spanned the weekend.


- Sick leave that spans a weekend will include the weekend, and in this example will be counted as four days of sick leave as it includes Saturday and Sunday.

@Zeus2020 Remember that uncertified sick leave is not an an entitlement, it is usually afforded to an employee at the employers discretion.

From the HSE circular 020/2012 :-
2. Self-Certified Sick leave Where an employee is absent from work due to illness but does not attend a registered medical practitioner, such an absence will be classified as self-certified sick leave.

Selfcertified sick leave may not exceed two consecutive days on any occasion including where it spans a weekend (in the case of employees who work Monday to Friday), rest day(s) or a public holiday. e.g. Employee who works Monday to Friday if an employee is absent due to illness on Friday, off on Saturday and Sunday (rest daysL and returns to work on Monday, this counts as one day of absence and Friday is classified as a self-certified sick leave day. If the employee remains absent due to illness on Monday, this counts as four days of sickness absence and a medical certificate is required for the period. In the case of an employee who is at work on Friday and absent due to illness on Monday, this counts as one day of absence and is classified as a self-certified sick day. e.g. Employee who works a '5 over 7' roster If an employee is absent on Tuesday due to illness, rostered off on Wednesday and Thursday, and returns to work on Friday, this counts as one day of absence and Tuesday is classified as a self-certified sick leave day. If the employee remains absent on Friday (next scheduled working day), this counts as four days of sickness absence and therefore a medical certificate is required for the period.

HSE revised Guidelines on Terms and Conditions of Employment 2017 still refers to the above circular :-

Self Certified Sick Leave An employee may be granted up to a maximum of 7 days self certified sick leave in a rolling 24 month period (pro rata for part time staff). Self certified leave may not exceed two consecutive working days and a certificate from a registered medical practitioner is required where the sickness absence is longer than two consecutive working days. Paid sick leave for single or two day absences may be granted where an employee self certifies that they were unfit for duty due to illness. Any period of self-certified sick leave in excess of 7 days in the relevant period will be an unpaid absence from duty. HSE HR Circular 020/2012 sets out details regarding these arrangements.
 
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Leper

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In my days as general union rep I have fought with various managers in the HSE and in Civil and Public Service. Even if you are sick for the full day on Friday and the full day on the following Monday (and provided you had not been hitherto scheduled to work the Saturday or Sunday) you are not obliged to have a medical cert on your return to work on Tuesday. That is written in stone within the HSE and general Civil Service guidelines.

However, to explain matters further, some managers challenged me on one Friday I was ill and didn't attend for duty even on the following Monday and they demanded the issue of a Medical Certificate. On which I did procure a Medical Certificate (cost €60.00 visit to GP)and when my stance was upheld the cost of the visit to the local doctor was fully refunded to me.

My managers were not happy with the outcome, but when I represented others who had previously been in the same boat as me and asked for them to be refunded also, the drew in their horns.

Just typical of the Common Sense that is not so common in the Civil and Public Service.

Just as an addition to the above I have seen cases (note plural) where their spouse or immediate family member died on a Friday and had Saturday and Sunday counted as Bereavement Leave although none was scheduled to work over the weekend. It was just another area where Ol' Lep represented the bereaved over some stupid rule being misinterpreted by management.

Again, Common Sense was not so common.
 
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PaddyBloggit

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DES counts weekend as sick leave days if a teacher is off sick on Friday and the following Monday.

Ditto with holidays. e.g. If off sick before Easter and still off sick after Easter... all the Easter holidays count as sick days.
 

Leper

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DES counts weekend as sick leave days if a teacher is off sick on Friday and the following Monday.

Ditto with holidays. e.g. If off sick before Easter and still off sick after Easter... all the Easter holidays count as sick days.
The issue is the amount of sick days and if you're sick on say half day of the evening of Friday and still off sick on the following Monday It's counted as 3.5 days sick leave, but a medical certificate is not required for the period.
 

SparkRite

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The issue is the amount of sick days and if you're sick on say half day of the evening of Friday and still off sick on the following Monday It's counted as 3.5 days sick leave, but a medical certificate is not required for the period.
Not according to the HSE's Guidelines on Terms and Conditions of Employment 2017 :-

If the employee remains absent due to illness on Monday, this counts as four days of sickness absence and a medical certificate is required for the period.

Again Leper, you keep saying this is 'written in stone' but where is this tablet ?
 

Leper

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Not according to the HSE's Guidelines on Terms and Conditions of Employment 2017 :-



Again Leper, you keep saying this is 'written in stone' but where is this tablet ?
Sparkrite, I'm retired for the past 3 years and I left all my notes behind and I have no further use for them. But, concentrate on the Common Sense aspect and I'm sure you'll be happy.
 

SparkRite

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Sparkrite, I'm retired for the past 3 years and I left all my notes behind and I have no further use for them. But, concentrate on the Common Sense aspect and I'm sure you'll be happy.
Absolutely nothing to do with my state of happiness and in fact I resent that remark.

What has common sense got to do with anything, as you said yourself:-
Again, Common Sense was not so common.
It is what is written in the T&C's of their employment contract which is pertinent and not what you or I may feel should be the way.

The Op asked:-
will I be classified as sick since Friday and have to send in cert to cover friday Saturday Sunday Monday ...…
and I have shown (with backup links/quotes (many,many more available)) that yes he may well have to.

However, you say the opposite, and deliver it as fact, indeed going as far as to repeat how it is 'written in stone' but cannot show where it is written. I challenge what I perceive to be incorrect advice being given to the OP , with good grounds to, and you appear to take umbrage with that.
 

Leper

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Apologies to all (especially Zeus2020 and SparkRite) I'm wrong. In the CS and PS if you are sick on even the 2nd half day on a Friday and even on the 1st half day on the Monday it is not improper to be asked to supply a medical certificate and the period counts as 3 days.

I am not going to ruin my apology with excuse(s) - I got it wrong.
 

Zeus2020

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Thanks for replies ..was back to work Tuesday so only had half day sick but was there something in public service years ago if you worked the first 4 hours then you automatically classed as being in for whole day or payed for the whole day or was this changed and everything counted in hours now
 

Leper

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To save some of my blushes:-

In the Civil and Public Service for the last 40 years approximately sick absences from work over a one day period are classed as either a full-day (>4hrs) or a half-day (<4hrs). Before 1980 approx even two hours sick leave used to be counted as a full day. That was in the old cardex days where there was nothing on the card to indicate less than a full day.
 
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