TheBigShort
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I think it goes a bit further than that. Bitcoin has enabled some crimes that just were not possible beforehand. I'm thinking of large scale desktop/laptop ransomware in particular. We've seen this kind of malware now routinely asks endusers for bitcoin to unlock their desktop once they've been caught by it. Police forces are unable to follow the money, a key route to catching malware authors up until now.
So what!? Technology can be used for good or bad. That doesn't create a justification to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Remember, the 'currency' that is most heavily used in crime and particularly organised crime such as the drugs business has always been the usd. Are you suggesting we should ban the usd or that usd has no other legitimate use?I think it goes a bit further than that. Bitcoin has enabled some crimes that just were not possible beforehand. I'm thinking of large scale desktop/laptop ransomware in particular. We've seen this kind of malware now routinely asks endusers for bitcoin to unlock their desktop once they've been caught by it. Police forces are unable to follow the money, a key route to catching malware authors up until now.
We are slowly moving towards a cashless society - with or without bitcoin. Do you have to be operating in the black market to want anonymity? Centralised forms of digital payment mean that someone somewhere knows everything about you - in terms of location and buying habits. If you decided to give money to Greenpeace, Amnesty International or a political group, whomever runs the regime in a country has access to this information. You may be comfortable with that scenario but I am not (and yet, I don't operate on the 'black market'). It's a case of civil liberties.This is the nub of the issue. No one needs Bitcoin to buy other legitimate stuff, they can do so with conventional currencies. So the demand is only for anonymous payment for black market stuff.
Yes but the point was made that bitcoin isnt being used to buy stuff, so what use is it?
If I received 1,000 BTC through a malware scam, happy that the cops cant trace me, what good is a 1,000 BTC (€14m) if I cant spend it?
Typically, I would imagine, I would sell all or part of it, putting downward pressure on price of BTC.
So what!? Technology can be used for good or bad. That doesn't create a justification to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Remember, the 'currency' that is most heavily used in crime and particularly organised crime such as the drugs business has always been the usd. Are you suggesting we should ban the usd or that usd has no other legitimate use?
Desktop/Laptop randsomware wouldn't be possible without the internet. Should we tar and feather the internet and then ban it? This is Daily Mail logic.
The point is that you can effect a transfer via bitcoin. If you can extort 1000 BTC, you can happily cash it in for € and spend away. The key point is that your BTC has been amassed without anyone knowing where or who it came from. This is fundamentally different to extorting money via other currency types. Credit Card payments would be trivial for police to follow. Cash transfer would be impractical for many reasons, in that your criminal needs to be physically available to collect (useless for worldwide distributed ransomware attacks).
I'm not casting a moral judgement on bitcoin, or suggesting its be made illegal. I'm simply saying that it has brought an innovation to criminal enterprise that did not exist before it. Extortion beforehand always had some weakness where the criminal needed to expose themselves at some stage to collect payment. Bitcoin has removed this risk. I can't think of any other asset, currency or protocol for value transfer that has achieved this so completely and effectively before.
The point is that you can effect a transfer via bitcoin. If you can extort 1000 BTC, you can happily cash it in for € and spend away. The key point is that your BTC has been amassed without anyone knowing where or who it came from. This is fundamentally different to extorting money via other currency types. Credit Card payments would be trivial for police to follow. Cash transfer would be impractical for many reasons, in that your criminal needs to be physically available to collect (useless for worldwide distributed ransomware attacks).
Just one point, if you've been infected with ransomware and it has put your data at risk, you had a security hole. You can blame the money but ultimately whether there is ransom or not that security hole still exists and your data is still threatened by it, anyone else could hack you and just delete your data indiscriminately anyway.
I can make the same claim about credit cards, they require sensitive information to be hoarded in central databases which create a huge target (no pun intended) for hackers, and you get this happening: http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/05/24/target-to-pay-18-5m-to-settle-hacking-probe.html 40 million people having their sensitive payment details stolen. When I make a bitcoin payment no sensitive information is shared, the merchant never receives any details that they need to keep secret regarding the payment.
If you are claiming that Credit Cards created opportunities for new ways of doing crimes, I'm with you 100%.
While also true, that's not my point. My point is that if I buy something from target and pay with credit card, now my identity and credit card information are dependent on their security not mine. It's no longer under my control.
People don't keep all their bitcoin on a mobile app. Significant amounts are kept in cold storage via paper wallets or devices such as trezor. You only keep a small proportion of funds on a mobile app - for day to day use.The downside is accidental loss of your remaining balance is not insured against - either via your online wallet provider or if you've kept it on a local device and lost it.
Do you have a source for this ? - I would believe the majority of people (not the majority amount of Bitcoins though) who are holding Bitcoins are doing it in a online wallet.People don't keep all their bitcoin on a mobile app. Significant amounts are kept in cold storage via paper wallets or devices such as trezor. You only keep a small proportion of funds on a mobile app - for day to day use.
You never keep significant amounts on a bitcoin exchange - other than for a small window of time when you have no other choice i.e. when you are about to buy or sell. Even then, you could reduce your exposure by breaking up trades into smaller amounts.
or if you've kept it on a local device and lost it.
A source - in terms of stats and the percentage that store their bitcoin in various ways? No - I don't have any such source. However, it's basic common sense. If you only have a fraction of a bitcoin, then perhaps it doesn't matter. However, if you have a substantial amount of bitcoin, only a moron would walk around with it - on a mobile wallet.Do you have a source for this ? - I would believe the majority of people (not the majority amount of Bitcoins though) who are holding Bitcoins are doing it in a online wallet.
Only because enthusiasts are doing this (offline wallet) I have doubt that the housewife or taxidriver who bought bitcoins because it is in the papers are doing the same.
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