I will be on the Last Word (Today FM) talking about DJ Carey's write-off by AIB

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AIB need to explain themselves to their shareholders. A €9.5m writedown that appears to be outside of formal insolvency arrangements, DSA, PIA, or bankruptcy, needs explaining.

I note that AIB brought bankruptcy proceedings against a former colleague of Matt Cooper's; Ivan Yates. Ivan Yates subsequently filed for bankruptcy in Wales. Why should DJ Carey be different?

I also note that Sarah Newman, former partner of DJ Carey, filed for bankruptcy in England.

Why should DJ Carey stay out of a formal process?

btw, I wonder if a €9.5m writedown from a bank represents a €9.5m Benefit in Kind that needs to be declared on an income tax return?
 
This is gonna be a rough couple of weeks for DJ. If I was him I think I'd leave the country for awhile!
It's a shame, I find it hard to criticise him. He has definitely built up a lot of goodwill from me, some of my fondest memories are going to Croke Park and being mesmorised by him on the pitch. He was my hero. And the fact he was doing it all for a love of the game, not getting paid, always had me in awe.
 
AIB can't publically discuss an individual case without that account holders permission and I presume that still applies to Dail committees. Politicians "demanding answers" specifically on DJ Carey should know that and hence any such calls are pure grand-standing

However, there is a legitimate case over the application of policies and practises and if leeway was given on certain cases, including this one and/or others as well. Furthermore, given that the papers are reporting that the money was advanced in relation to properties at high end golf clubs, it does make you wonder what happened here. Lastly, if the money was to be advanced in relation to the purchase of properties, was due diligence and process followed through in paying over the money and what happened the assets in question
 
TLO said:
A €9.5m writedown that appears to be outside of formal insolvency arrangements, DSA, PIA, or bankruptcy, needs explaining.
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But if I understand correctly the judgement against him was from 2011, before when the PIA framework was in place.

Would this make a difference?
 
TLO said:
AIB need to explain themselves to their shareholders. A €9.5m writedown that appears to be outside of formal insolvency arrangements, DSA, PIA, or bankruptcy, needs explaining.
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I will explain it if you like?

Check out the many threads on Askaboutmoney where we encourage people to engage with their lenders and try to do a deal without the need for a formal process.

Debt negotiators and PIPs will always try to reach some settlement.

They will threaten the lender with a PIA and if the lender vetoes it, they will get the court to approve it.

So AIB and all the other lenders take a practical approach - what maximises the return for them. I would say that bankruptcy is rarely their best option.
 
Here are some PIAs with big write offs or well-known figures in recent years

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/frank-mcnamara-and-theresa-lowe-given-extra-time-to-sell-land-under-29m-debt-deal-41830603.html#:~:text=The couple ended up with,paid off over 19 years.

Some €1.7m was written off the mortgage balance of €2.2m they owed to Tanager.

The money still owed will have to be paid off over 19 years. Mr McNamara (61) and Ms Lowe (59) will be 78 and 76 respectively when their new mortgage term ends.


www.breakingnews.ie

Court gives go-ahead for developer couple's multi-million debt write-off | BreakingNews.ie

Husband and wife property developers Kevin Brophy (72) and Jacinta Rochford (67) together owed more than €10.8 million and Mr Brophy had further unpaid loans of some €2.9 million
www.breakingnews.ie www.breakingnews.ie

Kevin Brophy and his wife had €12m written off

The interlocking PIAs allow them to keep their Ballsbridge home on Pembroke Gardens, Ballsbridge, by writing down the €1.7 million left on the mortgage to €900,000, the value of the property, which will be repaid.



www.rte.ie

Court allows separated couple write off €2.8m of debts

The High Court has approved Personal Insolvency Arrangements allowing a separated couple to write off over €2.8m of debts owed.
www.rte.ie www.rte.ie

Mr Justice Alexander Owens on Monday approved PIAs for Bernadette Canning of Monknewtown, Slane, Co Meath and Graham Canning of Ledwidge Hall, Slane Co Meat

It was proposed that the house, at Monknewtown, would be sold to an approved housing body, and that Mrs Canning would rent the property back from that body.



https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2022/1128/1338807-high-court-barry-harte/

A former Cork dentist turned property developer has had a record €170 million in debt written off in a personal insolvency agreement (PIA).





The largest PIA previously approved by the court was a write off of €133m for former rugby player, Pat Whelan in 2018.
www.independent.ie

Revealed: Former Ireland rugby international got €133m write-off – but vast majority of debt deals were ‘much more modest’

At the weekly sitting of the High Court’s personal insolvency list last Monday, some €22.6m in debt was written off in three arrangements approved by Mr Justice Cian Ferriter.
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie
 
It's not clear that the assets held by the debtor were relinquished a part of this write-off. That would be different to the other cases quoted above?
 
Peanuts20 said:
AIB can't publically discuss an individual case without that account holders permission and I presume that still applies to Dail committees. Politicians "demanding answers" specifically on DJ Carey should know that and hence any such calls are pure grand-standing
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The Irish Times makes an interesting point about Ivan Yates's case in relation to this:
www.irishtimes.com

AIB has not always stayed mum on distressed debt cases

Lender was happy to defend itself when pursuing debts tied to Ivan Yates a decade ago
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
 
Paul F said:
The Irish Times makes an interesting point about Ivan Yates's case in relation to this:
www.irishtimes.com

AIB has not always stayed mum on distressed debt cases

Lender was happy to defend itself when pursuing debts tied to Ivan Yates a decade ago
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
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Without having a subscription to the IT, I don't think its particularly newsworthy that a bank's attitude to customer privacy in relation to distressed debt may have evolved at least somewhat in a decade during which public awareness of privacy issues has greatly increased.
 
But this is the key point

Ivan Yates claimed in an interview with the Sunday Independent a little over a decade ago that AIB had “harassed and intimidated” and sought “to make an example” out of him over a multimillion-euro debt, the bank was swift to react.

AIB, to be sure, only commented after the other side to that dispute bemoaned his treatment by the bank.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But this is the key point

Ivan Yates claimed in an interview with the Sunday Independent a little over a decade ago that AIB had “harassed and intimidated” and sought “to make an example” out of him over a multimillion-euro debt, the bank was swift to react.

AIB, to be sure, only commented after the other side to that dispute bemoaned his treatment by the bank.
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Ivan Yates, the man who put all his money...and AIB's...into bookies shops and didn't bother with developing an online betting app... :rolleyes:
 
AIB also wrote of loans/mortgages for the likes of CJH and Garrett Fitzgerald, and those. are only the ones we heard about.
 
Always Learning said:
This is gonna be a rough couple of weeks for DJ. If I was him I think I'd leave the country for awhile!
It's a shame, I find it hard to criticise him. He has definitely built up a lot of goodwill from me, some of my fondest memories are going to Croke Park and being mesmorised by him on the pitch. He was my hero. And the fact he was doing it all for a love of the game, not getting paid, always had me in awe.
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The world’s smallest violin is playing for DJ Carey.
 
www.irishtimes.com

AIB defends debt deals following DJ Carey criticism

Majority State-owned bank addresses debt write-down for Kilkenny hurling star in circular to staff
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com
In the circular, the bank’s head of retail banking, Jim O’Keeffe, did not name Mr Carey, saying that he could not comment on individual cases for legal reasons, but told staff that he wanted to clarify AIB’s approach to debt write-downs in light of “commentary in recent days.”

In the memo, seen by The Irish Times, Mr O’Keeffe told staff that “some of the external commentary over recent days does not provide the full picture” and that the bank had a “robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed”.
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RTÉ reported last Friday that Mr Carey’s debt judgment of €9.5 million was written down with a settlement of €60,000, which the broadcaster said represented a 99.4 per cent write-down on the original debt.

However, the report did not take account of the sale of golf resort properties securing the debt at the K Club in Co Kildare and at Mount Juliet in Co Kilkenny in the years after the 2011 judgment and how the sale proceeds went towards the reduction of Mr Carey’s debt to the bank.

It is estimated that Mr Carey’s €9.5 million debt to the bank was written down by about 80 per cent after the sale of the golf resort properties and the €60,000 settlement are taken into account.
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Also, RBB and Brendan's appearance on Today FM is here:
link.goloudplayer.com

The Last Word with Matt Cooper - February 20th, 2023 - 4:30 PM-7:00 PM

February 20th, 2023 - 4:30 PM-7:00 PM
link.goloudplayer.com link.goloudplayer.com
  • Click Play
  • Click the X
  • Jump to 40:30
 
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Always Learning said:
I'm talking about his sports career, yes, I would absolutely say it was for the love of the game. As with almost all GAA stars, the dedication for almost nothing in return is mind boggling.
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Carey from an early stage in his playing career always displayed an odd attitude to money. One of the country's greatest hurling journalists never worked again after he wrote something about Carey and money, and Carey sued his newspaper for libel. That was more than 20 years ago.
 
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