FAQ I have been fully vaccinated, what changes can I make to my behaviour?

[Brendan Burgess]

I thought an FAQ would be useful on this. I don't have the answers, just the questions. I will insert the answers based on the replies .

What is the risk of my getting Covid?

What is the risk of my being hospitalised if I get Covid?

What is the risk of dying?

Could I get Covid without knowing it?

Can I infect other people even though I have been vaccinated?

Do I still need to be careful?

Is it safe to socialise indoors? Pubs, restaurants, dinners and parties in friends’ houses?

I have been invited to a christening indoors. All the adults have been vaccinated but there will be loads of teenagers and children who have not been. Should I go?

Is it safe to hug my granny – as she and I have both been vaccinated.

Some of my friends are refusing to be vaccinated – should I avoid them completely? Should I avoid meeting them indoors?

I want to travel abroad to an area where there is a lot of Covid. Is it safe to do so?

I work in an open plan area with air conditioning and 20 people. One of them refuses to be vaccinated and does not comply with any social distancing rules. He thinks it’s all a joke. What should I do?

Which is the best vaccine? I got the Janssen vaccine which I am told is only 70% effective. Should I get one of the other vaccines as well? Am I allowed to get one of the others?

 

[ClubMan]

Great questions that have been bugging me too Brendan.
My comments for what they're worth...

What is the risk of my getting Covid?

An individual's risk will presumably depend on many factors - e.g. age, health profile, vaccination status, behaviour etc.
Can the AVERAGE risk of infection be inferred from, the 14 day incidence rate?
E.g. at the moment the 14 day incidence rate for Dublin is 246 per 100,000 of population so does that equate to a c. 0.246% AVERAGE chance of contracting the virus?
(Averages will always be a blunt instrument but at least should be based on actual data - e.g. even of the average chance is 0.246% then the party animal will have a higher risk and the hermit a lower risk).

Different vaccines provide different levels of protection against infection, hospitalisation and death and also reduce the severity of symptoms.
I have found this quite confusing and difficult to qualtify.

The EMA database provides details of each vaccine (although the nomenclature here is getting very confusing!)

• Astra Zeneca: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/vaxzevria-previously-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca
• Pfizer: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/comirnaty
• Moderna: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/spikevax-previously-covid-19-vaccine-moderna
• Janssen: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/medicines/human/EPAR/covid-19-vaccine-janssen

According to those links the reduction in risk of infection (or is it specifically symptomatic infection?) is:

• Astra Zeneca: 60%
• Pfizer: 95%
• Moderna: 94%
• Janssen: 67%

So if the above risk of infection for Dublin right now (0.246%) is meaningful then Pfizer and Moderna will reduce this to c. 0.0246%?

What is the risk of my being hospitalised if I get Covid?

Again I can't figure out what the risk of hospitalisation is if you get infected but the differentt vaccines reduce this risk by a similar amount to their "efficacy" mentioned above. E.g. by 90% for Astra Zeneca/Pfizer.

Could I get Covid without knowing it?

Yes - asymptomatic cases are possible so you can have it without knowing.

Can I infect other people even though I have been vaccinated?

Yes - vaccination significantly reduces your risk of getting infected but you can still get infected.
If you are infected then you can infect others.
Even if you have no symptoms.

Do I still need to be careful?

I would have thought so and am acting on that basis myself - i.e. I will not be rushing back to the pub/restaurants and will continue to limit my socializing otherwise. (I got Janssen by the way).

Is it safe to socialise indoors? Pubs, restaurants, dinners and parties in friends’ houses?

I don't think that it makes sense to ask "is it safe" but rather "what is the risk" (of infection, of spreading).

Is it safe to hug my granny – as she and I have both been vaccinated.

Well there is still risk involved - either or both of you could be infected and not (yet) symptomatic.

Which is the best vaccine? I got the Janssen vaccine which I am told is only 70% effective. Should I get one of the other vaccines as well? Am I allowed to get one of the others?

Maybe the links and info above help here?

Other thoughts...

• Could a vaccinated person who is a party animal have a higher risk of infection than an unvaccinated person who mixes very little?
• As mentioned above I don't think that it makes sense to ask "is scenario X safe" but rather than understand the potential risk involved - but I have been bamboozled by all of the figures and the fact that a lot of media coverage (even including specialized programmes) play fast and loose with the data and make incorrect assertions as far as I can see. E.g. I am always hearing "vaccination reduces your risk of infection by 90%" which does not add up for me because different vaccines offer different levels of protection.
• I refer to the EMA database because that's what the various Irish sites (HSE, Citizens Info etc.) eventually link to: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-...thorised#authorised-covid-19-vaccines-section

 

[Brendan Burgess]

but I have been bamboozled by all of the figures and the fact that a lot of media coverage (even including specialized programmes) play fast and loose with the data and make incorrect assertions as far as I can see. E.g. I am always hearing "vaccination reduces your risk of infection by 90%" which does not add up for me because different vaccines offer different levels of protection.

Hi Clubman

Thanks for those answers and the additional questions.

Your comment on the 90% shows the difficulty science communicators face. In a radio interview, they can't go into all the detail you would want in scientific paper. If they mentioned all the numbers you have listed, the audience would be gone. So a shorthand such as "up to 90% depending on the vaccine and some other factors" gets the message across without losing the audience.

Brendan

 

[ClubMan]

It would be more accurate and honest if they said that vaccination gives *at least* 60% reduction in risk of infection. Rounding up to the best case is simply wrong. And disseminating incorrectly favourable data is misleading the public and is grist to the mills of anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Maybe some people think that this is a pedantic point. I don't.

 

[ClubMan]

Which is the best vaccine? I got the Janssen vaccine which I am told is only 70% effective. Should I get one of the other vaccines as well? Am I allowed to get one of the others?

On the last question, it looks like you cannot pick and choose what vaccine you get under the public health system. Or get a second vaccination with a different vaccine. And I'm not aware of any private vaccination happening yet. I do know one person whose doctor requested that they get a specific one of the four available vaccines due to specific health issues.

Man who had severe AstraZeneca reaction cannot change vaccine, says HSE

Karl Cretzan (25), who has cerebral palsy and scoliosis, wants Pfizer for second jab

www.irishtimes.com

 

[odyssey06]

The FAQ will be difficult as the data is still being assessed for vaccinated people and delta variants and breakthrough infections.

For example, due to concerns about 'breakthrough infections', the CDC has restored its advice on wearing masks indoors for vaccinated people - this is probably the closest to a FAQ I have found:

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said new data had convinced her the Delta variant was "behaving uniquely." She said the evidence indicated that fully vaccinated people who have breakthrough infections involving Delta may be as likely to transmit virus to others as unvaccinated people are. Plus, she said, people living in areas of high or sustained transmission should start wearing masks in public again -- even if they are vaccinated -- because of the higher risk of becoming infected when more virus is circulating.

However they have not released the data behind this advice... so at this point the article concludes:
"It's hard to say whether people infected with the Delta variant despite having been vaccinated are more likely to infect others."

Analysis: CDC fails to publish data needed to judge risk of breakthrough infection | CNN

Federal health officials surprised just about everyone this week when they announced a change to guidance for fully vaccinated people, saying most should resume wearing masks inside.

edition.cnn.com

 

[ClubMan]

Yes it's difficult to ascertain the facts when things are constantly changing. But blatantly incorrect info from the media certainly doesn't help.

 

[Bronco Lane]

Yes - asymptomatic cases are possible so you can have it without knowing.

If a person is asymptomatic.....how long do they stay like this?

We are reporting about 1300 hundred new cases of Covid every day. Who is getting this Covid? Are these younger people? Where are they picking it up? Is it evenly spread all over the country?

We are told that it is in offices, travel and household get togethers. How are people picking it up in offices? We are told that planes have air filters equal to operating theatres.....is this true or something put out there by the travel industry?

In another post Leper told us of his recent experiences when travelling to Spain. Are people picking up Covid at flashpoints in the travel process....such as queueing to get on planes, waiting for luggage at carousel?

In household situations are people being careless or were they always careless people anyway?

 

[Leo]

If a person is asymptomatic.....how long do they stay like this?

Looks like they could be contagious for almost as long as symptomatic carriers.

We are told that planes have air filters equal to operating theatres.....is this true or something put out there by the travel industry?

The studies on aircraft ventilation and filtration only looked at the risks while in the seats where the downward ventilation plays a big role. They didn't look at the scenes we hear about of people queueing shoulder to shoulder like the old days getting on or off the planes.

 

[rustbucket]

I find the HSE advice to vaccinated people at the moment bizarre.

In a household of a family member an elderly fully vaccinated person fell ill. Got tested. Result was positive. Advised to isolate for 10 days.

2 other members of the household are fully vaccinated along with an infant not vaccinated.

The two adults were advised to do nothing. They were fully vaccinated therefore did not need a test as no symptoms etc but to get the infant tested.

infant tested negative but while they were at it the two adults got tested for piece of mind. One is now positive with no symptoms and is isolating for 10 days now also.

I can’t understand how they were not advised to get tested immediately even though fully vaccinated. To me that doesn’t make sense

 

[odyssey06]

I find the HSE advice to vaccinated people at the moment bizarre.

In a household of a family member an elderly fully vaccinated person fell ill. Got tested. Result was positive. Advised to isolate for 10 days.

2 other members of the household are fully vaccinated along with an infant not vaccinated.

The two adults were advised to do nothing. They were fully vaccinated therefore did not need a test as no symptoms etc but to get the infant tested.

infant tested negative but while they were at it the two adults got tested for piece of mind. One is now positive with no symptoms and is isolating for 10 days now also.

I can’t understand how they were not advised to get tested immediately even though fully vaccinated. To me that doesn’t make sense

I think the advice was framed with healthcare workers in mind and didn't want them to have to isolate if close contact of a positive case.

I think they should have recommended that people go for tests, we have the test capacity at present, so use it.