House Renovation

Hibernicatio

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We have a three bedroom terraced house in Dublin, approx 50-60 years old. It is not in great shape and needs to be completely renovated. I am trying to get an estimate of the prices that I would expect to pay and any hiccups that people have encountered during their renovations.

Three bedrooms, 1 bathroom, 1 living area, 1 dining area, 1 kitchen.
In all, a pretty standard terraced house.

I would be interested in knowing a rough figure of how much each would cost, to a medium - high standard.

Rewiring complete house - ?
New GFCH system - ?
New windows, patio doors, 8 in all - ?
Resurfacing walls - ?
New floors throughout, wooden - ?
Landscape small back garden - ?

Any ideas or rough estimates would be very helpful.
 
here are some rough estimates:

rewiring - put it down for 6 grand. save yourself some cash by telling the sparks youll supply the gear yourself. always supply gear yourself unless you know the tradesman as this gives you transparency over how much you are actually being charged for labour. check out http://www.dwyers.ie for some great prices on electrical fittings - 4 euro for chrome sockets aint half bad. the electrician might alternatively charge you 40-50 euro per socket you want rewired/added. think this includes the box that goes into the wall but not the actual sockets that go into the wall.

new gfch - depends on how many rads and what style of boiler (go condensing if you can and consider condensing combi but be aware of the drawbacks - search this forum to find posts on this). if you don't know a plumber youll be doing well to get this all done for 8 grand.

pvc patio doors - about 1500 supplied and fitted
windows - roughly 500 a pvc window supplied and fitted

by resurfacing walls i assume you mean plastering - is it a case of being able to remove wallpaper and then skim them or do you need to put on new plasterboard? slab out the plasterboard yourself (under a tenner a slab) as itll cost you plenty to do this and its easy enough. as for plasterers, they pretty much name their price and are notoriously difficult to get so stick this down for 7 grand and a bit of a delay.

new floors - id fully recommend solid wood as youll thank yourself in the long run as for me it just looks much better. brooks, who are normally sky high prices, have a decent enough deal for the public at the moment - junckers (the hilfiger of wooden floors - wouldnt recommend paying their premium full prices) at 50% off....youll get maple for €25 a sq yard,oak for 40, up to walnut for about twice that. assuming youre just doing downstairs, think roughly 1200 for laying it, but again knowing someone capable of doing this would be a big plus. how bad are the current floors - if they are concrete are they level cos if not you'll have to level them with concrete and screed and then levelling compound.

no idea on landscaping im afraid but i know a lad who might be interested in a nixer so PM me if you want.

hidden costs to anticipate:

is there any asbestos in the house or garage?
is the mains pipe lead ( i recently got nailed with this in the house i just bought)?
do the fascias soffits and gutters need replacing (about 1200 supplied and fitted)
front door - again around the 1400 mark for pvc, over 2 large for wooden.
how bad are the current floors - if they are concrete are they level cos if not you'll have to level them with concrete and screed and then levelling compound. this will be pricey if you cant do it yourself.
can you do all the gutting work (removing current plaster off the walls etc.) yourself as this will significantly reduce your outlay?
note that the skirtings will need redoing when doing the floors, so youll probably be wanting to change the architraves and doors aswell. skirting, architraves and white doors (about 70 including lock and handles) are all cheap enough to buy but if you have to pay to have them fitted youre looking at 2000-2500 overall id say.
ask yourself do you need new kitchen and bathroom(s) now or in the near future as if you do and can anyway afford it now itll be best to get it done now to avoid future upheaval and you might get the same carpenter and plumber to do it at a better price than calling them out again.
do you need an attic stairs (checkout the Dolle models available for 120 at the moment - grand job and easy to install.
Do you need to put in flooring in the attic? This is easy to do if you are pulling down the ceilings and replacing with new plasterboard as you can put the new attic boards up thru the joists. do this yourself as its easy and the 8 foot by 2 foot boards are fairly cheap, so some 4 x 40mm screws and youre away in a hack. Actually, strongly recommend pulling down the ceilings if replastering - itll be a much better job and probably needs doing after 50 years but more importantly itll make the rewiring and replumbing WAY easier which should enable you to bargain down the price.
Likewise if you reslabe the exterior walls with kingspan backed plasterboard- - great for insulation and eliminates much of the need for chasing the wires and pipes.
On that note do you need to insulate the attic, ceilings and partition walls, cos do this after pulling down the plasterboard cos youll thank yourself for the warmer rooms and better sound insulation.
Also dont forget waste disposal - youre looking at 295 for per standard skip.

am going through a similar reonvation at the moment hence the enthusiasm, am doing most of it myself which is keeping costs down but its damn hard work. good luck with it and be sure to bargain with everyone - tell them 'its a cash job so youll knock 20% off that' and dont settle for less than a 10% drop. also use little tricks like 'i have a lad whos prepared to do it for X amount but hes going on holidays/not available for the next two weeks and I'd prefer to get id done sooner so if you do it for X we'll go with you".

Theres plenty of costs that will arise along the way so this might end up costing you need 50k depending on what spec you do it to. PM me if you want and I'll give you details of the tradesmen we used.
 
Thanks Pinchy,

Lot of good information there, plus some things I had not even thought of. Dont plan to do much for another 6 months so some forward planning is very useful.

Cheers
 
OhPinchy, Who is doing the good deal on the Dolle attic stairs for 120 at teh mo?
.. great detailed post btb
 
I have seen the Dolle stairs in Brooks for 129 and got mine in Clondalking Building Providers for 120
 
thanks for that info - in process of extension - trying to save as many pennies as possible!
 
Just wanted to say Oh Pinchy's post is one of the clearest & most informative I've seen in ages. Good stuff!
 
Am in the middle of getting builders myself so this was very helpful, thanks. But just one thing - is the whole 'doing it for cash' thing not unethical? I know paying VAT is a pain, but for a big job I thought it was a necessary evil.. or am I naive???
 
speirbhean said:
Am in the middle of getting builders myself so this was very helpful, thanks. But just one thing - is the whole 'doing it for cash' thing not unethical? I know paying VAT is a pain, but for a big job I thought it was a necessary evil.. or am I naive???
Yes - the 'price for cash' is unethical - it is a conspiracy with the tradesman to evade cash. Don't be surprised that our politicians practice tax evasion as long as the man on the street still goes for the 'price for cash'.

Though I do agree that the rest of OhPinchy's post was very helpful.
 
Thats a bit of a presumption there folks - if I pay someone in cash its none of my business what they decide to do with it. Many businesses prefer cash as it is liquid right away, but undoubtedly many want cash to evade tax - but again thats their business not mine and Im not one to ask 'excuse me are you going to evade tax if I take a discounted cash price from you'...all I know is if you want a decent price youve gotta go cash and judging by how widespread this is theres a lot more people out there living in the real world with me. That said, if I had any tangible reason to believe that the cash would lead to tax evasion, I might reconsider, but as I said I'm not gonna go prying into a builders accounts.
 
So a builder gets taken to court for tax evasion, and you're also cited as you paid him a wad of cash for a job.

It has been implied on this forum that you have colluded with the builder to help him avoid tax. But if the builder has said to you "I'll give you a discount for cash as my cash-flow isn't great just now & this'll pay the lads wages next week" - is any reasonable judge going to take the view that you have colluded in a tax-evasion scam? I would hope not.
As Pinchy says, surely the onus is on the builder - or is my employer liable too as he paid me the money I used to help a builder avoid tax, and I had told him in the passing that I was building a house?
 
When you say "cash" do you mean actually hand over thousands in euro notes?
 
So if I buy a car CD player from a 15 year old for €40, is it my problem to worry about where he got it? Am I reasonable in thinking that he runs a legitimate electrical distribution business in his own time?

It doesn't matter how you spin it - you know damn well that he's evading tax and you're helping him to do this.
 
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