House purchase - getting snagged up on Land Registry issue

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jman0war

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This should have been a straight forward no mortgage purchase but it's been snagged up now on a Land Registry issue.
I am largely uninformed about Folios and stuff like that so thought i'd get some opinions.

It's a small stone house built in mid 1800's, on a row.
It's got a kind of a long back garden and it seems there is a map discrepancy between the Folio lines and the Site lines of the back garden.
The seller is listed as the owner of the Folio and the Site.

But there's a thin strip unaccounted for in the Land Registry map of these boundaries.
Picture attached.
Nobody else can or does (as far as we know) claim this thin strip of land and the seller's solicitor is trying to get this sorted; i suppose redrawn at the Land Registry but this is a significant snag now.
Our Solicitor suggests the Contracts can proceed but he says we should get:
-Declaration of Identity from an Architect or Engineer or if this is refused, have Engineer verify the boundaries in conjunction with the maps attached to the Deeds.

Previously we had the house surveyed but didn't do a boundary survey.
What do you think is meant by "If this is refused"?

There's no walk way or path going between the back gardens of the houses on this row so this is probably just some mistake made on a map at some point in the past.
But what do you think a Declaration of Identity is going to accomplish?
Does an Engineer have access to the maps attached to the deeds, like through the seller's Estate Agent?
 

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Your solicitor is doing their job and pointing out an issue. But ultimately they will follow your instruction to proceed with the purchase, should you decide to accept the risk.

You should confirm with your solicitor, but I gather they are suggesting two ways to reduce this risk

1. Ask the vendor to provide a Declaration of Identity from a professional they've employed to survey the boundary, in advance of the boundary records being corrected.

OR alternatively, if the vendor refuses,
2. Engage your own engineer to conduct a similar survey
 
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Not known how thin the strip is.

Got our solicitor to clarify that yes, we should get a Declaration of Identity from vendor and if they refuse than do our own survey.
 
This may be a simple mapping error when maps were digitized. Land Registry maps are not conclusive as to boundaries unless adjoining landowner agree to this which is a rarity.

If not a mapping error

Perhaps you should do a Registry of Deeds searches to ascertain if the site unaccounted for on the folio is unregistered land. You would need to examine the valuation office records of rateable occupiers to ascertain who the previous occupiers may have been to search the Grantors' Index of Names at the Registry of Deeds.( You can not conduct a search in the Registry of Deeds using maps to identify the property.) If the vendor has been in long possession without acknowledging the title of the true owner he would have obtained a statutory title under the Statute of Limitations, 1957. This is generally 12 years long possession but different periods of occupation apply to local authority property, foreshore etc. The person in possession will only acquire the title of the dispossessed owner so it is important to ascertain if this is leasehold or freehold property. An application for registration based on adverse possession is then made under s.49 of the Registration of Title Act , 1964 as amended. There may also be CAT complications. The foregoing is just from personal experience. Your case may not be as complex as this so please dont let this frighten you off.
 
I'm a bit confused looking at both images. In the photo, are you saying that the grassed area, the garden is the disputed bit, or is it the gap on the map between the site boundary and your red line?

If the former, there's a definite problem, but as others have said, if the latter, it is probably just a mapping error.
 
I was going to say that it might be some sort of right of way or old path but it doesn't look like that from your image.
Maybe it's a folio chance from a previous change of ownership or mortgage application.
 
Ravima, no it's not exactly known.
But the solicitor says it's a thin strip, the grassed area is not a thin strip.
It's likely an error when records were digitized.
It seems impossible to get Land Registry office to move faster than a snails pace, one that is suffering from lethargy.
 
Our solicitor is basically insisting the seller gets a Declaration of Identity, while the seller is refusing.
Hereto we are just taking our solicitor's advice to demand this and let them run with it.
Maybe the seller is concerned that the sliver of land issue will be a problem if he gets a Declaration of Identity?
Our solicitor says it's normal to include one.
But if this is going to tank the sale, gosh i don't know what we'll do.

Has anybody heard of not providing this document?
 
jman0war said:
That's not a particularly helpful answer.
Click to expand...

Why not? Your solicitor has already answered it for you in his/her actions.

If the seller doesn't provide the declaration, you should walk away and not even consider going through with the sale without it.

That was where my post came from.....

I don't think my reply was unreasonable.
 
It wasn't a helpful answer because it was a snarky reply.
Anyway, i see that other buyers sometimes have to get the Declaration of Identity.


Well, here's how this dance often goes

-Gis a declaration of identity.
-No.
-G'wan.
-I said no chance.
-Well it's up to you to give it. You're the seller.
-Don't care. I'm not putting my client to that expense. Your client already has an engineer: Get him to do it.
-*big sigh* Grand so.

boards.ie - View Single Post - Declaration of identity when buying a house

boards.ie - 1000 monkeys... 1000 typewriters...
www.boards.ie
Click to expand...
 
jman0war said:
Anyway, i see that other buyers sometimes have to get the Declaration of Identity.
Click to expand...

You're paying a solicitor to act on your behalf, and to protect your interests. What do they say when you asked them this?
 
Leo said:
You're paying a solicitor to act on your behalf, and to protect your interests. What do they say when you asked them this?
Click to expand...
They basically said it's too early to do that yet as it's the seller's responsibility.
But it sounds like we can do it ourselves if the seller keeps refusing.
 
jman0war said:
They basically said it's too early to do that yet as it's the seller's responsibility.
But it sounds like we can do it ourselves if the seller keeps refusing.
Click to expand...

Too early to do what?

Doing it yourself will introduce risk, I presume you'd be looking for a discount.
 
I had this issue on my previous house. It was a house in a terrace built in 1927 by the parish. It had a back drive/ entrance (no proper road just over back gardens) and behind the 6 terraced houses. This (sliver of land) was still owned by the bishop and other trustees from 1927, despite the houses having been sold. The house I was buying was second from the end of the road but the end house had built over the right of way so my bit had been incorporated into the garden. My sale went through at the time with an affidavit from the sellers that it was part of the garden and had always been since 60s. I was worried later about if I wanted to sell so I paid the solicitor to get the land registry to put in my name under adverse possession. It took time and the solicitor and to research and try and see if any decedents from the trustees could be contacted but it was eventually sorted. I don't know what a 'declaration of identity' is but I would try and get this if it resolves the problem - only other thing might be to talk to Sol about adverse possession but you will need an affidavit or more from the current seller to get this as you won't have owned long enough.
 
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