House For Sale - Title Missing

M

Mel

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I saw a lovely house with For Sale sign the other day, and gave the agent a call.

He told me that the title for the house was missing (is this same as the deeds?) and that it had gone sale agreed 12 months ago, but the purchasers couldn't proceed as a bank will not offer a mortgage in these circumstances.

He said that this property would need to go to a cash buyer, who would be in a position to pay in cash, and not need to use the property as capital on any other loans, and wait 12 years for a reasonable claim of possession on the property, at which point, (i think he said) new deeds could be drawn up.

Has anyone done this or known of cases like this?
What if the previous owner were to come up with the title after selling - would they then have a claim on the property, or would the fact of signing sale contract negate that risk?


The price was extremely reasonable, based no doubt on the level of risk involved...
 
The bank WILL go sale agreed if the vendors solicitors (who probably lost the deeds themselves in 1966 :D ) will give undertakings as to the title while they
root around for the deeds (again) or get them reissued . This takes up to 2 or 3 years.

I would contact the auctioneer and say that you will not even value and survey the place or make an offer unless the vendors solicitor ponies up their undertakings for you FIRST .

If your solicitor reads this undertaking and reckons its crap or evasive or unenforceable or if the vendors solicitor refuses to undertake then do not spend another penny on it. Walk away . Walk Away Fast.

If the undertakings are OK it may be worth the risk .
 
I have a simmilar story.

Went sale agreed on a town centre house down the country. About 150 years old. Solicitor just informed me that the owner has no title to the propoerty.

Seemingly.......in 1935 the house was leased to mrs x for 15 years. After that lease expired they continued living there (owner was in america or died or something) and daugher took it over.(for free!) Appartenly the relatives of the owner in america (or wherever) can re-claim the property. Unlikey but still a possibility.

Was sold in 1982 for 8000pounds with 2000 discount as 'question' over title. (current agreed price 335)

They have offered to sell it to me at a discount if i take it 'as is' or it can take up to 6 months to get her name on the deeds. Solicitor advised me to wait.

But probably will pass.
 
"The bank WILL go sale agreed if the vendors solicitors (who probably lost the deeds themselves in 1966 ) will give undertakings as to the title while they root around for the deeds (again) or get them reissued . This takes up to 2 or 3 years."

We don't have any detail, but it is far more likely ( in my experience) that the Deeds were at home in a hot press and were thrown out by someone in a spring clean fever. If that is the case, then it is not for the vendor's solicitor to give any undertakings but to advise and take instructions from the vendor - whose problem it is. It would be the norm for the vendor to clarify what they think happened to the Deeds, reconstitute the Title, probably organise Title Insurance and this can take time.

Again from the vague detail given, I suspect that the vendor does not want any aggravation and hopes to pass the problem on to someone else and not incur any cost in dealing with the problem. Given that most people have to borrow and the banks don't like these problems, this is unlikely to be feasible.


mf
 
We don't have any detail, but it is far more likely ( in my experience) that the Deeds were at home in a hot press and were thrown out by someone in a spring clean fever.
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Are you a lawyer ??? you never mentioned:D . Tut. The deeds could have been used as cat bedding all right but the vendors lawyer would write down that they did not HAVE them and would give therefore no undertakings .....surely.
If that is the case, then it is not for the vendor's solicitor to give any undertakings but to advise and take instructions from the vendor - whose problem it is.
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Twould be a bad bad vendors solicitor who would not be trying to fix this issue right now as we speak . :D

It would be the norm for the vendor to clarify what they think happened to the Deeds, reconstitute the Title, probably organise Title Insurance and this can take time.
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But the vendors lawyer can comment on whats been done so far non ??

Again from the vague detail given, I suspect that the vendor does not want any aggravation and hopes to pass the problem on to someone else and not incur any cost in dealing with the problem. Given that most people have to borrow and the banks don't like these problems, this is unlikely to be feasible.
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Nicely put, the vendor has no choice but to deal with the matter really.
 
Check out Titleguard insurance, I'm not sure if it covers lost deeds but it would be worth looking into. [broken link removed]
 
God you are really pushing Firstamerican in every post today Hel_n , any disclaimer to add ???
 
"He said that this property would need to go to a cash buyer, who would be in a position to pay in cash, and not need to use the property as capital on any other loans, and wait 12 years for a reasonable claim of possession on the property, at which point, (i think he said) new deeds could be drawn up. "

From OP, it seems that the vendor is not going to go the road of fixing the problem but instead hopes that time will heal all. Its hardly for the Vendors solicitor to do something that the vendor does not want done.

Equally, we don't know that the vendors solicitor ever had anything to do with the property prior to this. They may very well, for all we know, have made extensive enquiries and been unable to trace the Deeds. Clients do lose their deeds sometimes.


Finally, if the property has been on the market for a long time, then it does seem likely that a sale will not happen until the Title is fixed but Vendor has held out so far so who knows.

I am a solicitor. I think most regular posters would know that. I basically comment on what gets posted here.

mf
 
Yeh I just realised that as I was adding that last post :). No, I've no connection to First American - just know that before lenders brought in free switchers many people would have used them when remortgaging and were pleased with them.

I don't know of anyone who used TitleGuard but just thought it may be helpful to Mel.
 
It protects the lawyer not the purchaser or had you not noticed .??

Anyway I am only telling the original poster to get clarity from the vendor and/or the vendors solicitor at the vendors expense before they proceed with any expenditure .

Defective is relative . phoenix_n gave an example of VERY defective but it may not be that bad.
 
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