Case study Home and two investments all in neg equity

S

Serren

Registered User
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Good Morning Everybody !
Long time reader and first time poster. Hope I present this right for you guys to throw your eyes over the figures and give us your opinion ...

Both myself and my husband are, thank God,permanently employed - Public Sector workers.
My salary remains consistent, my husband work all the hours God sends to ensure we meet all repayments, misses out alot on family life,birthdays, school plays etc so he can work the extra hours needed to make ends meet.



Myself - E 1,112.00 Per Fortnight Wage -Net Pay
My Husband - E 940.00 on a flat rate Net fortnightly, though has been consistently circa E1,450.00 Net per fortnight for the last number of years with incidental overtime.



PPR Purchased in 2003 - Negative equity circa E50,000.
PPR Mortgage Repayment - E 890.00 ( Tracker rate )
Life cover/mortgage protection/ serious illness cover/house insurance - Totaling E 1.142.64 monthly repayment to the EBS.
Restructured these repayments with the EBS, extended the term to 30 years last year.
Top up of E 105,000 - Repayments of E273.50 ( Tracker rate and also restructured to 30 years last year)


2 RIP Loans- Purchased in 2006 .After our first child was born we bought the 2 RIP in response to an overwhelming desire to make sure children were protected and looked after and well... worst thing we ever did. Proverbial sponges that they are.First 5 years were both on Interest Only (IO)
Both properties currently rented out.



RIP Loan A rented at E 970.00 per month.

RIP Loan A Repayments - on Capital & Interest (C & I ) repayments restructured to 30 years, since September 2011. Prior to that IO. Repayment are E 1,266.85 per month. Interest rate variable on both Rips - 4.6%

RIP Loan B rented at E 800.00 per month
Loan B repayments E 913.69 Per month

Both properties purchased in 2006 - for E 275k & E280k plus stamp duty totaling E 605,000.
Estate agent now selling similar 2 bed apartments for E 90 - 100 K.

Insurance on apartments per month E104.00 ( unfortunatly necessary as it covers full amount owed in event of either death).

Management Fees : - E 2,800 per year for both.

We are currently putting E 643.54.00 monthly to the Rip loans ( Shortfall of E410.00 om mortgages and E233.00 for management fees).

3 wonderful children and pregnant on our 4th blessing due next year.( only silver lining for us is our kids :)) Oldest child school going.
Child minder comes in to our house- childcare costs : - E 1,000 per month.
Health Insurance: - E144.00 per month.

Credit Union Loan : - E 14,000 against E 6,000 held in shares - repayments E380.00 per month- 6.8% staff cu rate.
Credit Card :- All cleared - Nil owed on same.
Personal Loans: - None - All cleared early.( While on last maternity leave, we let our child minder go and plowed every cent we would have paid her plus extra money from maternity benefit and cleared all loans 18 months early and our credit card loan.

Grocery Shopping : E 400.00- 500.00 per month.
Utilities : Gas & Electricity : E 150.00- 200.00 per month ( divided by yearly cost ).
Mobile Phones : E 80.00 for us both a month, no landline.
Broadband: E 30.00 per month
Sky: E 70.00 per month
Diesel : E 400.00 ( I use E 30.00 per week and my husband commutes 1.5 hrs to work- E70.00 per week).

Havent been on any weekend breaks/ holidays for over 5 years.
We never go out socialising/ dont drink/ never get take away, source everything form comparrison websites. We shop in Lidl/Aldi/bulk buy in larger grocery shops when offers on, part of butcher club and get deals on fresh meats,bought second freezer and freeze everything we can. We never use dryer, no dishwasher- thats me!!, my husband unfortunatly smokes , and think he will never give up with all the added stress hes under now. Desite trying everything at our disposal , inculding hypnotherapy, he still remains a smoker.




We are not in arrears on our PPR, Top Up Loan or the 2 RIP Loans to date. We are managing repayments on everything for the last few years.Keeping our heads over the water.

Our greatest concern is that the incidental overtime is being abolished very shortly.
We have engaged with our bank the EBS in relation to this for the last 2 years in particular but they refuse to listen to us and will not figure out a contingency plan for the RIPs with us. They wont engage as we're both permanently employed , we have spoken to MABS also but although very helpfull said we can make no further life style changes, apart form the obvious smoking one, but that they were only advising people in trouble with their PPR.
The EBS want to put RIP B on Capital & Interest repayments @
E1,266.85 ( or there abouts) when the extended IO finishes next February.We filled out their SFM, spoke with them regularly, got an independent financial advisor to try and negotiate with the EBS about any suggestions they have for dealing with the RIP loans that would be satisfactory to both bank and ourselves. We know putting loan B on IO is only kicking the can down the road and not giving us a real tangible solution to it.


We ideally would love to sell the RIPs, keep our PPR and the top up, maintain the repayments on both those trackers, and negotiate a write down on the balance ??
My husbands beloved mother passed away last year, the will is currently going throught the probate process, we have no exact figure yet , but there may be an inheritance of circa E20,000 once all the legal process is finished. We would both be absolutly willing to offer this to the EBS as part / full payment of the residual amount owed if they negotiated a smaller personal loan,which would be less than what we're paying for the top ups on RIPs mortgages at the moment.


Will the RIP loans be sustainable on these figures if/ when my husbands overtime completly and suddenly goes ?

I can see my husband worry constantly about this....hes mentioned going to the UK.....mentioned bankrupcy.....I dont think there will be any legislation passed in Ireland to help us out.......though I always hoped we could hang tight for another while longer and we would eventually get out of this mess...sell the RIPs in few years( will the economy ever turn around enough though ??) , we'd never ever ever break even, we know this, but if we could come someway close to what was suggested above about keeping the top up and our own ppr, then we would manage fine.

Apologies for the colossal post...I felt I needed to explain it for you guys......If theres anything I've left out...please dont hesitate to ask.


Thank you kindly for reading
;)
 
[B said:
Our greatest concern is that the incidental overtime is being abolished very shortly[/B].
We have engaged with our bank the EBS in relation to this for the last 2 years in particular but they refuse to listen to us and will not figure out a contingency plan for the RIPs with us. They wont engage as we're both permanently employed ,
;)
Click to expand...

This is the problem , the banks aren't coming up with sustainable solutions for people , even people like you who are being proactive and trying to avoid a future problem. It shows a lack of professionalism and is short sighted in the extreme.
You could try stop payment of the investment properties putting payment in a holding account and maybe they will engage with you then on an exit strategy from these bad investments.
I'm sure you are aware of all the variables that could turn your situation into a nightmare situation very fast :
loss of job ,reduced wages, higher income taxes ,lower rents, property taxes ,higher interest rates, loss of tenants, illness, etc, etc.
I know some families in similar positions to yourselves who on the face of
it have nice homes , good steady jobs ,but bubbling under the surface is the bad investments which were made during the credit bubble which are all close to crashing down .
Some are going the UK route, others are waiting on the Irish route ,some are going the strategic default route outlined below and some are burying their heads and hoping for the best .
Personally I think the strategic default route is the best route for a family who live in a house they wish to remain in ,have good paying solid jobs,have kids.
You avoid bankruptcy ,you don't have to upset family life regards the kids schools, etc . You extract yourself from bad properties and the hassles/taxes that go with being a landlord . Granted its not a pleasant route and you may have to pay a fixed amount from your income for the foreseeable future to satisfy judgments ,but the upside is that the judge decides the amount which is fair and not the banks.

I know people going this route: its copied from another reply but you will get the idea.



1) Don't pay anything more on both investment properties. Continue to pay your home mortgage.

2) Divert any rent received from rental properties to reduce your other loans as quickly as possible before repossessions.

3) Ignore (don't reply) to any letters/phone calls from the banks in regards to your investment properties until you receive court papers for repossession of the investment properties. Hire a solicitor to send your consent to repossess the properties to the bank and court .

4) The Banks will get judgments against you for your outstanding mortgage(s) balances and costs which will be minimal if you don't fight it. Any sale achieved in the future will be deducted from the amount you owe AFAIK. Your name/address will be published in Stubbs .

5) The Banks will probably get judgment mortgages on your home and you will get a visit from the sheriff ,if you don't have any very valuable items ,for example, speedboat , fully paid for cars, caravans ,valuable art pieces, etc he will most likely leave and report nothing of value to the court. He doesn't take cloths,beds,couches,tv's ,kids bikes etc. etc.

6) The Banks will apply to the court to have your means examined and to determine how much you should/can afford to pay to the banks on a monthly basis, based on your income /expenditure.You must attend the public court. You must fully engage and be honest with the court at this time . If you don't keep up the court ordered payments you could be imprisoned ,but it is a long process and you would have ample time to reinstate payments or apply to have your means reassessed.

This route will eventually leave you in a position whereby you stay living in your home, you keep your jobs,you no longer have any investment properties,you no longer have the hassles of being a landlord,you move on with your lives.
Downside you have to keep up the court ordered payments for maybe up to 12 years. If your financial situation worsens in time you can reapply to the court to have the payment reduced.

I think the fact your home is in negative equity the bank wont be able to get a well charging order for its sale and will go away once you keep up the court payments .
You need to play the system to your families best advantage,morals and fairness have long left this land !

Good luck
 
Let's look at the numbers here.

After your husband's overtime goes, you will have a joint income of around €52,000 a year net. The repayments on your home loan are about €14,000 a year which leaves you with around €40,000 net.

RIPs
You don't say how much you have borrowed, but let's assume it's the full €600,000.

Rent|€21,000
Interest|€27,600
Other costs|€4,000
Net (loss)|€10,000

Unfortunately, you made a risky investment which turned out bad. Now you are facing the consequences of it.

There are three options

Option 1 - Pay as much as you can on the rental properties every month. You should pay the full rent and also as much as you can from your income.

The problem with this is that property prices will have to increase by around 200% for you to escape negative equity.

Option 2 - Wait for the Personal Insolvency Bill
You may be well suited to a Personal Insolvency Arrangement. Not sure if the EBS will agree to it though and they have the right of veto. I would strongly advise against GDuffy's advice of stopping payment on your rental properties. I don't think that this will do you any good.

If they agree to a PIA, it will last about 5 years. You will get to keep your home and you will end up with your home mortgage on a SVR. That would seem to me to be a fair solution.

Option 3 - Go to the UK for bankruptcy.
You will lose your house and your jobs. How employable are you when you come back? This is the best option if you might get work on your return.

I assume that you want to keep your jobs and your home, so I think that the best solution is as follows:

Pay all the rent to the EBS and pay a bit more as well to show your good faith.
Wait for the Personal Insolvency Legislation.
Apply for a PIA.

If it does not work for you in practice, go to the UK and go bankrupt.
 
Thank You very much GDuffy for your prompt reply. I appreciate it , more than words can ever say .
Would you believe that its taken me weeks to get the courage up to post all the info and to ask that question.......Will these RIP loans be sustainable ???
I'm afraid of the answer....maybe my husband is right after all....dare I even say it !

I do not know of anyone yet that has gone down the route of strategic default....
I know you have given an outline of what to expect... thanks so much for that...I still have some questions on this if you dont mind me hi jacking you for another answer !!

So to strategically default.......
We cancel the DD to the EBS on the RIPS....
Keep the rental income in an account earmarked for the EBS and let it accumulate for when the default process is finished.
Dont respond to letters from the EBS until we get court order papers for repossession....What time frame does this take ? How long would you need to be in arrears for before this happens ?
How long before you would have to go to Court ?

We have both cars paid for....a sheriff could possibly take these and anything valuable we may have. Dont own a speed boat....no Van Goghs....own valuable thing jewellery I own is my engagement ring ......well its valuable to me anyway !
Could they take a leather sofa for example ? Would there be a set time frame for a sherif to visit......or do they come anytime after the court papers arrive ?
I know they dont give you any advanced warning of a visit...defeats the purpose really....but this is all so new to me...cant believe I'm actually typing a reply re sheriff and them comming to your house.

So if you default...will the EBS not put the outstanding balance onto your home loan, or worse convert it to a personal loan at higher interest rates and you'd be left paying the balance of circa E 300 k over your lifetime ?

How long would you have to make court ordered repayments ?
You obviously would never be able to get another loan out ever again ( Dont really want to ever have another loan ever again !! )

How long does the whole process take... before you get summoned to court...after court...would you have to pay repayments the court approved for 12 years ?

I know this is alot of new information for me...trying to process it...having a few old palpatations too at the thought of doing this. But if its the best decision for family and sanity....
 
Hi Brendan,

We borrowed the full amount on the RIPs...the bank actually encouraged us to pruchase a further 2 properties in addition to the 2 we were in the middle of purchasing.
I agree with what you've said also.
Apologies, what is an SVR ?

We have paid every single repayment fully on every mortgage we have.
Just wanted a few experts to have a look at the figures and see what could be a workable solution for us.

Thank you kindly for taking the time to reply,

Much appreciated,
Serren, x
 
So to strategically default.......
IT sounds good but basically you are giving the 2 fingers to the banks and saying do what you must.

We cancel the DD to the EBS on the RIPS
yes

Keep the rental income in an account earmarked for the EBS and let it accumulate for when the default process is finished
Some people squirrel it away / hide it for a rainy day or to pay legal fees or clear other loans if any. (Some people have a moral objection to this )

Dont respond to letters from the EBS until we get court order papers for repossession....What time frame does this take ? How long would you need to be in arrears for before this happens ?
How long is a piece of string, The more you ignore them the quicker they act, but they have been known to be slow, so keep collecting rent.

How long before you would have to go to Court ?
see above

We have both cars paid for....a sheriff could possibly take these and anything valuable we may have
Yes he could take them if they are valuable - some people plan ahead and dispose of anything of value (in the thousands)

So if you default...will the EBS not put the outstanding balance onto your home loan, or worse convert it to a personal loan at higher interest rates and you'd be left paying the balance of circa E 300 k over your lifetime ?
read this key post http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=143928

would you have to pay repayments the court approved for 12 years
Yes- but maybe less
could be 300 per property per month or more or less depending on your disposable income after living expenses which the judge decides on .

I am not an expert or legally trained and my opinions are just that opinions.
I do know people who have defaulted and I base my opinions on what I was told. Its a big decision in your life and you really have to try educate yourself and take ownership of the process.You will find a lot of good free information on this site but I wouldn't make decisions based on web info only .

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Thanks for replying GDuffy...I really appreciate the time and effort it takes to reply...so thanks to yourself and Brendan for replying.

As I type both tenants have not yet lodged their rent...constant conversations to remind them gently rent must be lodged by the first of each month..but they know that tenants are in short supply and they take a hand alot...pay when it suits them...


I was going over the figures again last night..no matter what way we work it its not going to change the fact that at the moment we are

Subsidising all rent recieved with E 643.54 per month to the RIP repayments, in addition to paying for our own PPR and top up.

Next Februaury, EBS want RIP Loan B to cease IO and start C & I repayments.
IO repayments E 913.69 at present,variable rate, will be circa E 1,266.85 if/when they go on to C & I repayments, an increase in the amout we are already subsidising by E 353.16.
That would leave us with a shortfall of E 996.17 subsidising the RIP's.

We have always paid every loan...all mortgages fully..never missed any repayments.
Just so worrying now that this is the kind of money we have to put towards the RIPs to keep us afloat. Its the constant strain,pressure and the absolute stress of seeing absolutly no light at the end of the tunnel for us.
We would have no issue with paying whatever we own so long as we had the capability of earning it..with wage cuts over the last number of years...now overtime being abolished...whats comming in to our household will not equate to whats going out, there will be a huge deficit there. And seems like the bank just dont care...at whatever cost you pay your mortgages....was once told on the phone by EBS ...
Skip birthday parties that your children are invited to...dont travel to see your family in Cork....dont waste your diesel...do you really need to go to the hairdressers....you should decline family functions as they cost money to attend..similarly weddings and christenings.( We dont attned any weddings actually, or any work gatherings...we watch what our outgoings are that closely..have actually let my hair grow...cant remember what the inside of our local hairdressers is like....children go to the occasional birthday and pressies are always bought in the sales.Never eat out at work...always bring a packed lunch like so many of you guys do )

We actually have watched every cent spent now for years, I can see my husband begining to crumble before my eyes.....its so difficult to know thats this is the way its going to be for probably the rest of our lives. No one seems to think its going to get any better any time soon...just so disillusioned...lump in my throat....if there was any light at the end of the tunnel....seems like theres not though.We were prepared to work our sox off with the RIPs, do all maintenace,painting,repairs ourselves , then sell them after few years and have our children looked after. That was the plan...like so many...backfired spectacularly.
Gutted, feel like we failed them.
 
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So people are basically being advised on a consumer website to deliberately not pay a mortgage despite rent being paid by tenants to the landord
It is shameful that this is being tolerated.
 
dear Serren
I am sorry I have no advice for you but just wanted to say that you did NOT fail your children, you like alot of people made good decisions at the time with their best interests at heart, all encouraged and facilitated by a mutual building society that is now state owned.
You are not alone, there are loads of us out their with "investment" properties and huge negative equity and nothing is being done to help us.
Drop a line to your local FG / Lab TD -its important they know the strain people are under . Best of luck with your pregnancy and mind yourself
k
 
Not paying the lender is one thing, and in some situations understandable and maybe unavoidable. And the banks have been greatly responsible for OP's situation and are still responsible for being so inflexible

But...

But the advice to take the money from the tenants but don't give it to the lender is akin to theft.
 
Thank u to Sebadoh, KMCE & Oldnick for taking the time to read & reply to my post.
Sebadoh, I can understand your point totally. Rest assured,we have given ever cent of every months rent to the bank and always had to sub the rental income by at least a few hundred euro ourselves.
I am meerly digesting the advice/ suggestion given and ' thinking out loud ' ....but dont think it would be right for us to retain rental income in an account to give to the lender a year or two into defaulting. Courts probably wouldnt look favourably on that kind of behaviour with us both having permanent jobs.
KMCE - Thank u for your kind words...am touched ...genuinely that people who dont know us from Adam can be so kind when the chips are down so to speak....think its the old pregnancy hormones ...but thank u anyway xxx
 
Sorry...little people on laps typing makes for premature replying !!!
Oldnick... Thank u too for taking the time to read and reply ....
I think its a little clearer that our intention was never to not give rental income to the lender....think it would never sit right with us....even typing the reply to op post I was getting palpations !
So we'd always pay the mortgage ...even when we'd no tenants.
U can see what we've to put towards the RIPs at the moment....

What I asked really was would the RIPs be sustainable if my husbands income reverted back to his basic salary and more worringly...can we manage when we have to subsidise the rental income recieved by nearly a thousand euro per month ??
Any ideas about this ?
 
Serren said:
Thank u to Sebadoh, KMCE & Oldnick for taking the time to read & reply to my post.
Sebadoh, I can understand your point totally. Rest assured,we have given ever cent of every months rent to the bank and always had to sub the rental income by at least a few hundred euro ourselves.
I am meerly digesting the advice/ suggestion given and ' thinking out loud ' ....but dont think it would be right for us to retain rental income in an account to give to the lender a year or two into defaulting. Courts probably wouldnt look favourably on that kind of behaviour with us both having permanent jobs.
KMCE - Thank u for your kind words...am touched ...genuinely that people who dont know us from Adam can be so kind when the chips are down so to speak....think its the old pregnancy hormones ...but thank u anyway xxx
Click to expand...
your facing up to obviously tough decisions, which is laudable, its just one of the posters is offering disgraceful advice to folks in your situation, I didnt mean to attack you. The advice offered by Mr Burgess on the contrary is always valid and well thought out.
 
sebadoh said:
So people are basically being advised on a consumer website to deliberately not pay a mortgage despite rent being paid by tenants to the landord
It is shameful that this is being tolerated.
Click to expand...

Hi sebadoh

It's a very difficult issue.

The first draft of my post was quite different and it evolved as I was writing it and editing it.

I think that people should make every effort to pay their debts.

Serren is obviously totally insolvent. She has made mistakes. She needs to address these. The EBS needs to address these.

I don't think she should get off scot free.

I certainly don't think that she should use the rental income to pay down her home loan.

But... the Personal Insolvency Bill would actually incentivise this course of action. This is a big defect of the bill.

But(2)... while I always advocate that people should pay their debts as much as possible, there is evidence that some banks will simply not engage with people until they go into arrears.

I don't like GDuffy's advice. But then I sometimes wonder if I play by the book too much and if people following the "shameful" advice of GDuffy would be better off.
 
Thank u to Sebadoh, KMCE & Oldnick for taking the time to read & reply to my post.
Sebadoh, I can understand your point totally. Rest assured,we have given ever cent of every months rent to the bank and always had to sub the rental income by at least a few hundred euro ourselves.
I am meerly digesting the advice/ suggestion given and ' thinking out loud ' ....but dont think it would be right for us to retain rental income in an account to give to the lender a year or two into defaulting. Courts probably wouldnt look favourably on that kind of behaviour with us both having permanent jobs.
KMCE - Thank u for your kind words...am touched ...genuinely that people who dont know us from Adam can be so kind when the chips are down so to speak....think its the old pregnancy hormones ...but thank u anyway xxx
 
Serren - I want to add to Sebadoh's post that we did not think you would take rental money and use it for other purposes ,although the temptation is obviously so great. We were purely attacking the advice on ,well, old-fashioned moral grounds. (Though some would say that the banks should not be treated ina moral manner. Unfortunately and crazily the Irish people now own most of them)


Anyway, may I say one thing ... (well, a few actually)

The old addage "it's only money" seems rather facile when one is faced with the daily burden of keeping a roof over one's head -especially with a large and growing family.

But you have something that my wife and I - and many othe people -are desperately envious of . You have three,soon to be four, lovely kids -and (hopefully!) a good husband.

I don't know your personal state of health but if your family are in good, even reasonable health, then, espcially, with your kids, you are far richer than many many other people on this island.

Nobody is going to take you away and shoot you for owing money to the banks.
It's a pandemic in Ireland - millions owe the banks. And everyone hates the banks. They are like the Daleks in Doctor Who -unthinking robots who not only are part of the cause of the problems but refuse to properly solve them.

Some people don't give a hoot about owing - and perhaps go too far in avoiding paying their debts. Some people worry far far too much -like you and your husband.

I know a couple of bank managers from different banks . They have repeated many times that they personally feel very bad about peoples position , but that they have to try and try to get as much as they can back. Like the Mafia bosses always tell their victims - "it's nothing personal".
I've replied that it is very personal to the people in debt, especially with the threat of losing their homes. They have emphaised that no bank has any desire to repossess properties -and that the number of repossessions can be numbered in hundreds - less than 1 property in 200 in arrears. And repossession only occurs when the banks receive no payments. And as far as repossessing one's family homes -extremely rare and almost only for complete non-payers.

If the banks get only the interest payments then they are content to let owners keep the properties- in fact they want owners to keep them. But they won't openly admit it. They have to go thru messy intrusive motions before officially agreeing to accept part-payments/interest-only.

Whilst I think Duffys post contains rather dangerous advice from a societal point of view it's quite good from an individual's. Pick out the points that are useful, and maybe start planning them, just in case you really can't pay one penny.

Your only real concern is your health and that of your familiy's. Your anxiety may damage that. It sounds silly -but maybe some yoga or other relxation techniques will help you both realise that owing money to the banks nowadays is really not that bad -it's almost fashionable !

Now, I have to get back to being a grumpy old man and shout at my neighbour for his barking dog. Good night and good luck.
 
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Thank you all for being so patient, reading through fully and replying. I am after putting the children to bed and am catching up here....
Sebadoh, I can totally appreciate your point and you were not attacking in any way, its a fair point but I did want to give each and every person who posted advice a fair read and weigh up pros and cons of what they thought. Thanks for understanding that we have paid every single cent to the bank for the last 7 years, and to the management company...

Brendan, you have made some very stellar points too....I will be painfully honest......probably fierce nieve too and say truthfully my stomach flipped whrn you said we were totally insolvent. I thought we could possibly manage if we re budgeted...again....maybe thought I'd get opinions about how to approach the EBS with a plan to tackle the RIPs for our mutual benefit. Thought that we could hold out another while , pay what we owe, as always, hoping for a break in the nexy 2 years or so...if we could know we'd be ok in a few years we'd make it through...probably on will power alone....but maybe the reality is staring me in the face....maybe this is unsustainable after all ?????

Brendan , you are right, I'm the first to admit we did make a collosal mistake, we've paid for it heavily over the last 7 years...and for the remainder of the next god knows how many years to come......
We would absolutly be prepared to repay back the top up loan of 100k, ( paying C& I repayments for the last 7 years on that ) we would also give them every cent of the inheitance my husbands mother left whenever that gets through probabte............possibly 20 k inheritance.
We would obviously give them the proceeds of sale, take responsibility for legal fees incurred....but there would still be a sizeable deficit that would have to be written off or a managable amount converted to a loan of some description.
So would not expect to get off scot free. The guilt would destroy you !!
Just still reeling from seeing in black and while we're obviously insolvent. Truth hurts eh.


Cashier, yes you are totally right, and you cant say anything I havent allready berated ourselves with for even buying the damn things.' If only ' dosent exist, and the fact remains that we did buy them, and cant undo that now. It was , your dead right, it was madness, but we thought we'd make a sound investment for our children and well... the rest is history , pity theres not time travel ! We do own over 800K including ppr, top up and 2 RIP's, total madness, we never earned millions to begin with. The stress tests they preformed never considered or accounted for this magnificnet recession we find ourselves up to our tonsils in......thank you for your time and effort to post, again, I appreciate it, xxx

Oldnick....poor you...nothing worse than the constant noise of a gabby dog !
Hope you get some sleep tonight !!
You are of course, 100 % right. We are, thank God, all, at this minute reasonably healthy. We are byond content with every aspect of our lives, bar the glaringly obvious RIPs and the mess we have created by purchasing them.
We are blessed to have little ones, we know that, and count those blessing each and every day. Our lst child was actually born 6 weeks early, just around the time RIP loan B was due to come off IO, we engaged with the bank for the 8 months prior to IO expiring, they asked us to fill out SFM, we did , they gave us a further year on IO. Kicking the can down the road. Refusing to talk to us at all. We meet with our branch manager about twice year, he was the one that we actually bought the RIPS, PPR with, encouraging us to add two more to the ' portfolio', I put my foot down, was grinned at for being the bossy wife and thank God I did. But we'd probably be no worse off, we're still screwed aren't we , regardless if we have 2 RIPs or 20 ??
When we meet the manager he constantly tells us we worry too much, we shouldnt be in such a rush to pay off our loans.....we should ' take the hand off them for IO and keep going on that for as long as we're approved' . This to me is insulting and offensive. We've been telling the bank for years the RIPs are going to be problematic , but they will not engage , as Brendan hit the nail on the head...we're not in arrears .......yet....on any property.

Oldnick, thanks for the very thoughtful advice re the yoga.........but think we'll be a complete stress ball till we can get some satisfactory resolution to the RIPs. xxxxx
You have a lovely way with words, and even though I was byond scared senseless to post initially.....(redfaced)...I'm glad I did, saying the figures out loud....hearing what you guys have to say on the matter....we'll its like a weight being taken off...primarily to know we're not the type to give two fingers to the bank, I think reading its clear we're not...we do honestly with every fibre want to repay what we owe...whether thats realistic or not I'm not quiet sure.....I was afraid of reading we were insolvent.....now just have to work up the nerve to show this post to my husband.

Thanks to all who read through the post and advised.....any further advice/ imput/ suggestions on which way to proceed really appreciated.

Good night folks, xxxxxxxx
 
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