Help! Want to take over wife's 1/2 of Mortgage

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lowpoint

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Hi all,

Posting under a new name as I had never expected to be in this position.

long story short - reasons for seperation not important.

myself & wife have decided to split but we are trying to come up with a solution that suits both of us. We purchased our home for 350k in 2009 and are currently in NE to the tune of 80k - 120k but will confirm this as soon as I can.

Our mortgage currently stands at 300k with monthly payments of €1330.

We cannot continue to live together for the sake of our kids and both of us are unwilling to move out and rent along with paying the mortgage for whoever stays in the home. It is all amicable at the moment and WILL remain that way as we know its best.

We have been banging our heads together to come up with ideas but we just cant seem to break through the barriers to each and every option.

Option 1 - preferred by both of us.
She buys me out in full inc NE. i.e takes over the full mortgage & i am debt free to rent somewhere and pay for anything my kids & the wife need.

Option 1a - preferred by both of us.
same as above but I buy her out.

For: I can do this with the help of my father as he has 3 properties fully paid for and some cash reserves.
Against: She cannot afford to buy me out!
Against: The bank by phone have told me that with my earning I could renegotiate a new mortgage of 174k but then my father would need to cash inject 125k to clear the wife off the mortgage. We do not have 125k to do this but have no problem paying the monthly repayments of €1330 ig given the chance. I would rent out a room or rent it out full stop €950p/m and pay the top up myself. Bank said they need full amount or part payment roughly 60k and some assurance of the other 75k if anything ever went south. Im gathering that they are just dealing with the figures but the figures are not telling the entire story.

If we could achieve option 1a we could keep our kids in the home with me for 3-4 days and then 3-4 days with the wife in a rented home nearby but we would both be free to enjoy our lives.

I am on the verge of a breakdown between the original marriage split & this and I cant even convey how much this is affecting me and anyone else involved.

Please please can you guys give me some other possible options that i may not have considered but note my father will give anything (put up 2nd / 3rd home with no mortgage as guarantee) to help us out achieving option 1A.

Im on my phone here and its awkward to read back what I have written but if anything needs clarification please ask.

Essentially we need to find a solution that we can both break free from each other without having one person suffering more than the other. its best for us & our kids.

Thanks in advance from a truely desperate home owner, husband & father.
 
Hi lowpoint

Sorry to hear about your distress. As you are both still amicable, you can come up with a solution.

house value|200k
Mortgage|300k
Negative equity|100k
Let's assume you buy your wife out.

Let's also assume you pay her €150k for her share. (You should only pay €100k, but let's assume it's €150k)

You don't make any change to the current formal legal ownership and mortgage.

Your solicitor should do up a separate legal agreement whereby you buy her share of the house for €150k. You accept responsibility for all future repayments and she renounces all claims on the property.

You make the repayments in full.
She is free to rent elsewhere.

The downside to this for her: If you don't make the repayments, she is still responsible for them.
The downside for you: If you pay off the capital and you return to positive equity, she might claim a stake in the house.

I am not a lawyer so there may well be legal problems with this. But if you are both in agreement and you trust each other, this solution works.

However, I would not rely on trust, if you can make it legally sound.
 
Thanks BB.

I had read your previous posts about this but just wanted confirmation.

I will ask my solicitor about this ASAP but i would have thought that the agreement signed would ensure that she has no claim on the house. Nobody should be trusted when we have access to a solicitor. its not about trust - its about taking every precaution possible to avoid problems for either of us.

It all going to come down to the legalities of the agreement we make. I will take her NE away from her so she is debt free.

I had thought of another posibility as i have just got off the phone with AIB.

i get mortgage of 175k, father (56) gets a 9 yr mortgage ( to be repaid by 65) for 125k but he will also stump up 40k initially to sweeten the bank so essentially he has 9 yr mortgage for 85k. Im not sure if the bank will accept that but it avoids the chances of the wife making claims after signing agreement stating otherwise. ill find out at the meeting next week anyway. Sound plausible?

thanks again all & BB

Edit: cant reply to members pm's but thanks for the advice & I shall be in touch. I would really appreciate it. Think its to do with my post count as new account.
 
ok....... its a bit confusing reading ur message..........

are you suggesting that - for talks sake you... are going to take over the mortgage of the house? so you are fully responsible for it, are you also suggesting that you pay your wife a portion of the value of the house?? so essentially you will have the burden of the mortgage and the burden of paying back however you can the lump sum that you give her???????

i am in a similar situation ----- what my ex has offered is that if i take over the mortgage completely, he does not want the responsibility!!!! of it that i will not have to give him any lump sum... it does however mean that i am taking on his share of the NE.................
i am only suggesting that you think about renting the house and you both live elsewhere........ i have thought long and hard about this too....... at the end of the day its only a house - as long as you have access to your kids and they are safe and happy this is the important thing.....
 

Sorry for any confusion!

There will be no lump sum for my wife. The lump sum was for the bank.

We had discussed renting the house out and going away seperately but then the kids will frel they have lost their home in a way. I want to keep them in as much the same situation as possible. We would both have to rent & top up the mortgage so it does not sound very appealing. We would be financially worse off than where we are now Id imagine.

I suppose option 1a is most preferrable & then what BB suggested would be next best being a modified 1a of sorts.

I never realised how stressful all this would be. Its really getting the better of me.

thanks for the opinion.
 
Hi lowpoint

I had thought that you meant that Option 1a was not achievable as you did not have access to the cash? So I paid little attention to the figures.

The numbers are a bit confusing

Current mortgage of €300k to be replaced by:

Your mortgage|€174
Part payment|€60k
Dad's mortgage|€66k
If your dad is happy enough to do this, then that is fine.

One major factor: I assume you don't have a cheap tracker. If you do, then you should not be paying a lump-sum off it and my proposal is the best.
 
cashier said:
Take care Lowpoint, your kids need you and will want you to be a part of their lives well into the future.

This current upheaval will sort it self out in time and you will get back on your feet again so stay strong for the sake of the family.
Click to expand...

Thank You. As pathetic as it sounds your kind words have more an effect than you think. Apart from my prediciment detailed above, all the other worries of the kids, both sets of parents feelings & work have caught up with me and I'm not coping well so again thanks for the anti self pity beating


Thanks BB.
I honestly dont know if option 1a is a runner but I am hoping more than you can imagine that what you have shown in figures in the post above will be achievable. The bank were very sketchy over the phone so I am now waiting on a meeting confirmation for some day next week where myself, wife & father can sit down with them & see whats possible. Chances of that happening? Who knows!

We are currently on a fixed mortgage and the reason we would give an initial lump sum would be only to sweeten the deal as such. There may be no need but again it will reduce the payments by way of my fathers 9 yr repayments which I will be paying anyway. I can pay the full mortgage myself but the banks criteria says Im elegible for only 175k - I think they take an average outlay figure for cars, dependants etc etc and adjust downwards.

Thanks as always folks.

Never think your advice is unappreciated - A few kind words of advice & support can make a big difference. It did for me today.

Keep them coming & I will post back the updates as they happen. I'm sure whatever happens to me will be similar & helpful to at least one other person unlucky enough to find themselves in that position.

Have a nice weekend.

Not so lowpoint.
 
I'm sure whatever happens to me will be similar & helpful to at least one other person unlucky enough to find themselves in that position.

Have a nice weekend.

Not so lowpoint.[/QUOTE]

Subscribing to this as in similar situation but unfortunately not a long time poster on here. Best of luck to you going forward, I know how stressful this all can be
 
ok so a little update.......

I spoke with AIB today and im getting different opinions & options depending on who i speak to. Anyway you know what I am trying to achieve from previous posts but i was told i cant arrange a meeting with them to discuss my proposal until myself & my wife fill out a 13 page document detailing our predicament & what we want to do. I was then told it will be anything from 4 weeks to 7 weeks for them to get back to me.

I also got the impression that no matter what i propose they will just fall back on legilastion drawn up by the central bank. Essentially they will just say their hands are tied.

I am meeting with my solicitor tomorrow to give her this update & to investigate the legalities of a seperate contract between myself & my wife to have me take over the mortgage & her to signing an agreement that she has no claim to the home if i do so.

It might be worth doing this before / while we wait for the bank to decide.

Just when i thought we had an amicable plan to work towards - we now have all this waiting which will more than likely mean nothing will be sorted pre Xmas.

Ive also sought the help of a mortgage broker who is and I quote " like a dog with a bone"

Ill try anything to be honest but this throws everything in chaos as we have just given my youngest sons creche 1 months notice of termination.

I was looking for homes for my wife to rent & now it seems pretty pointless as we cant do anything until the house arrangements are agreed & made.

What a mess!
 
You may as well wait to see if the bank are agreeable to you taking over the mortgage in your own name under some proposal you can come up with it. No matter what your solicitor comes up with re an agreement about taking over the mortgage it is not going to make the bank do it. I have dealt with many people who thought they were sorted because they had reached agreement between themselves and solicitors as to what they would do about mortgages etc, only to find it doesn't matter a toss to the bank what you want unless you actually qualify to take over the loan on your own.
 

If I can draw up contract I really dont care what the bank say tbh. I can & will service the mortgage but only if it would stand up in a court i.e. my wife as agreed at time of contract has no claim on the home in later years.

Its all a bit tricky and a total PITA.

I'll let you know what the solicitor says tomorrow & thanks for the comment.
 
Hi. As per Brendan's original post on this. Could you not agree to draw up a legal document where your children are the owners of the house and inherit it once both of you have passed on. (At the end of the day, that is what is most likely to happen!)
Therefore nobody can do anything with the house as long as you both live.

The bank is unlikely to make any changes to the mortgage as it stands as they are stronger with 2 borrowers as opposed to just one
 



We are trying to free ourselves from a financial tie between us so that she can go off & do whats best for her & I can stay and do whats best for me & thus enabling us to be our best for the kids. At 30 I am against planning anything around my death other than a standard will or pension.

If my father can come onboard the bank will still have two forms of security as they have now but would actually have a secured form of guaranteed payment if I got in trouble with repayments coming from a property of their choice (there are 3)

At the moment even with myself & the wife working they have no secured form of repayment other than our continued employment.

They would be far better off allowing us to do what we propose although either way we will service the mortgage to the end.

You are correct though in saying that the kids will get everything and my life will be dedicated to that as most parents would agree but I feel I have a few more years living to be done first. I was taken off the market at 18 so I owe it to myself to make a fresh start of sorts & I feel that we could both do this if the bank were to meet us halfway.

If we cannot achieve this for our sanity it may be best to seek a reposession & deal with the debt personally although my wife would definitely move back to her home country (uk) to which the banks would be far worse off in the overall scheme of things.

The stress of the whole situation is beyond a bad dream and sometimes I think walking away would be a release of this - only pride & good moral ethics keeps me from doing so. Its my debt & I will pay it back no matter what.
 
Hi lowpoint hope you're feeling a bit better today. At least you and your wife are working though this to get to the best solution.

I take it you both have jobs. Can you afford to run two households, this is a big problem when people split up? Would it be an option for you to move into one of your father's properties, maybe rent free? Or paying rent if you can afford it.

It is a worry that your wife might want to return to the UK. So you need to be very careful that whatever solution you come up with means she is happy.

When dealing with the bank, try not to offer as much as you can, they will take all they can, so see what they are willing to do before you make any offers of your own. For example I could see that the bank would love for your father to go guarantor for you.

Have you thought of selling the house, getting the bank to agree to a repayment of the NE of 120K at the same term and rate of interest as your current mortgage, and you both renting. There was a poster on here yesterday who was able to do the very same thing with Bank of Ireland. I'm presuming about 2 kids so maybe rent on a 2 bed to 3 bed would be doable.

Another option maybe for your dad to repay the 120K and you repay him at maybe zero interest. That's if he was willing and could afford to do this for you.

Have you fully thought through the costs of running two households.

For your own mental wellbeing I hope you are talking to somebody, a sister perhaps. Men are desparate at sharing their feelings but don't let that stop you, it's good to talk. Sounds silly but it really helps. You need help in dealing with the pain.
 
Hi lowpoint hope you're feeling a bit better today. At least you and your wife are working though this to get to the best solution. it's the only way Bronte isnt it? If we get legal with each other there will only be losers & winners and I suspect my wife & I will be the latter.

I take it you both have jobs. Can you afford to run two households, this is a big problem when people split up? Would it be an option for you to move into one of your father's properties, maybe rent free? Or paying rent if you can afford it. Yes we are both in full time employment & No because they are currently rented out to SW tenants and the stream of rent is always on time and the correct amount. They are also excellent tenants and he is against terminating the lease.

It is a worry that your wife might want to return to the UK. So you need to be very careful that whatever solution you come up with means she is happy. Well thats a concern I have obviously but I will do my best for her either way no matter what happens. My eldest would renmain in Ireland anyway so she would essentially be losing her daughter & I would be losing my son. Not good choices for either of us so that's the last things we plan to do.

When dealing with the bank, try not to offer as much as you can, they will take all they can, so see what they are willing to do before you make any offers of your own. For example I could see that the bank would love for your father to go guarantor for you. The problem here is that the bank will not agree to a meeting until we fill out the 13 page proposal & if it is not acceptable to the bank they will end talks there and then I presume? catch 22 IMO

Have you thought of selling the house, getting the bank to agree to a repayment of the NE of 120K at the same term and rate of interest as your current mortgage, and you both renting. There was a poster on here yesterday who was able to do the very same thing with Bank of Ireland. I'm presuming about 2 kids so maybe rent on a 2 bed to 3 bed would be doable. The thought of paying for nothing has me initially thinking that this is the worst case scenario. Am I correct? This also brings my wife's living situation into play noted above with the returning to the Uk.

Another option maybe for your dad to repay the 120K and you repay him at maybe zero interest. That's if he was willing and could afford to do this for you. He has the money but if he does this he will be property rich & cash poor which he does not want to do. I am also not keen on this as it's way too much to ask of someone who has worked hard for 40 years only to risk a decent portion of it based on trouble I have got him into.

Have you fully thought through the costs of running two households. I have and I'm very scared but my wife has admitted that she did NOT consider any of this when making the decision to terminate our marriage. Unfortunately we have now gone past the point of no return and must for ourselves see out this situation & take on hardship financially & personally. I know you may well ask how can somebody do all this without considering the fallout - I have asked myself the same question and come up with no answers which is why this has hit me so hard.

For your own mental wellbeing I hope you are talking to somebody, a sister perhaps. Men are desparate at sharing their feelings but don't let that stop you, it's good to talk. Sounds silly but it really helps. You need help in dealing with the pain. Believe it or not I would be considered a man's man but when your family, marriage, kids & home are all on the line you seem to take a different approach to things. I am devastated with all this (had to take time off work) & my wife seems unaffected (not an hour off work or any form of upset) but I have been speaking to a friend of mine which has helped. I know the underlying thought might be that I must have been a complate B*****d if this is the case but would be wholly untrue in reality. The main reason we are where we are is that my wife bottles everything up and will not discuss or talk about any problems or issues she is / was having. Again it's all very complicated and for another forum section so it not worth getting into.

Thanks again for the comments & opinion.

*awaits constructive info & advice along with a scalding for the coloured text* Cant seem to quote no matter what I try or logging back in & out etc. Sorry.
 
I just spoke with someone who deals with AIB and he has confirmed my worries about the possible options but did give me another one.

The bank do not have a product for using my fathers home as a guarantee so that options via the bank looks to be over but I will still chase it up.

I still have that option albeit slightly modified if i can legally draw up a contract between myself & wife to do essentially the same thing.

The other option is that my father gives me a gift of one of the homes (under 250K for no tax liability) and then i go to the bank again and get my 175K mortgage and offer the home as security along with roughly 10-12K current rent to satisfy the 125K outstanding from the 300K mortgage I currently owe.

I have no idea at this stage if my father would / could do this but I'm told he can. My father could also stump up 20K - 50K to sweeten the deal as such and reduce the overall mortgage to 280K - 250K which would mean that i would have a 25 yr mortgage of 175K and a home with current rent as guarantee for the outstanding 105K - 75K.

the bank would then be even more secure than when they started this process with me.

Sound like an option?

My one doubt is that I am obviously still married and would have to seek my solicitors advice about any gifts to me that my wife may stake claim to but if she wanted her 50K NE taken away from her and her life being stress & hassle free (in her eyes) she would be mad not to agree to anything I required by way of legal documents. Am i missing anything here?

The man i spoke to said that even when my wife seeks a solicitors opinion which she will have to, they will make it quite clear that me relieving her of 50K NE and no ties to the bank thus giving her the freedom to do what she likes (rent, buy or whatever) would be a very generous offer and should be agreed immediately.

I now need to talk to my father - It's dreadful that it has come to this but i have no choice if I want to keep myself, wife & kids in as positive a place as I can.

P.S. My father would still be collecting his rent and I would be doing absolutely nothing with his property in reality. As soon as i could hand it back (dont know if I can but you know what i mean) I would.
 
The big problem I see with offering the bank extra security either by way of your father and his properties or him giving you a property is that the security is normally not the number one criteria for the bank, it is ability to repay. The bank are mainly interested in an ongoing revenue stream from repayments, while it is nice to have excess security for the loans it means accessing it if required needs the properties to be sold, a long and tortuous process which is the last resort and not something they even want to contemplate so they will be more interested in whether or not you meet today's lending criteria for the amount of the mortgage if your wife's name is to be removed. They would be more interested in your father going on the loan if he had a good income rather than good security.

There are thousands of people caught in this type of limbo situation at the moment, not helpful to you I know but that is the situation, there are numerous threads on here with the same predicament.
 
Totally agree with what you're saying but again there has to be some common sense from the bank themselves - if I can't get an outcome that suits myself & them (paying the mortgage as agreed with no arrears having taken place) I will walk away & they will have the definite knowledge that they will have to reposses my property, a long and tortuous process which as you say is the last resort.

This cannot be all one sided and if it went that way surely there would not be a court in the land that would agree with the bank to reposses the family home when the occupant has made it extremely clear that he will pay the debt & has given securities for that debt along with the fact that I have never missed a payment & dont intend to.

I know it's not as simple as i make it out but it is also not as difficult as the banks are letting us believe. They are a business also and they are ultimately driven by getting paid what they are due. They can work with me or against me but all I can do is offer them options that I can work with. If none of them are suitable then what can I do but walk away. what happens after that and how it effects them is not my concern.

If they work with me = Bank gets exactly what they expected when they offered mortgage & make money
If they work against me = Bank have long & tedious task of selling the home along with court fees and a guarantee of losing money on the deal.

I dont see how they can't work with me on a deal thats suits both of us.

It would be such a shame if we couldnt reach agreement & I would also suffer the consequences obviously.

For clarity my father is retired 5 years at current age 55. No income except rentals which is why the 9yr mortgage for him is untimately not a runner.

Thanks again for the input WBBS.
 
Hi lowpoint, I'm very sorry you are going through a terrible time. I was just wondering if your Dad could buy your wife's half of your home, negative equity and all, so that she is off the mortgage and deeds. You could come to some arrangement with your Dad yourself - as far as ability to repay goes perhaps the bank would be satisfied if your Dad's income was also being taken into account (even if you are paying by yourself afterwards it would be your own private arrangement with your Dad).
I was also thinking that maybe Family Law regarding the family home applies to you. I'm not a knowledgeable person on this, but in the case of marital breakup the family home is not just a possession to be divided down the middle. Perhaps someone could advise.
 
The best of luck with it anyway, I hate being negative as I know you have enough on your plate. What you say makes perfect sense, trouble is there are no decision makers in the banks anymore, no one to see the sensible solution and go with it, there is so much 'can kicking' going on it should be declared an Olympic sport at this stage!
 
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