Have you had enough of the politicans "flapping about" yet ?

[MrEarl]

Hello,

Am I the only one who has had just about enough of our politicans "flapping about" or playing games ?

FG, SF & FF are all equally guilty of playing games and / or "flapping about" with the result being that we are no where even close to having a new government.

While this nonsense continues:

- the politicans get paid (I'd wager that if they were taken off the payroll, they'd manage to form a government or call another election, quick enough)

- the homeless continue to sleep on the streets

- the lack of beds in hospitals means people continue to be treated while on chairs etc.

... the list goes on.

Whatever about protesting on the streets regarding water charges, I think we would be more than justified to march in protest of what the politicans are doing now (or dare I say, not doing !).

What do others here think ?

 

[rob oyle]

I agree, but the committed voters for each of those parties, which would make up (say) 80% of the votes they got recently, would find reason to blame the other parties for the mess we're in. We get the politicians we vote for!

 

[Marigold77]

I agree, but the committed voters for each of those parties, which would make up (say) 80% of the votes they got recently, would find reason to blame the other parties for the mess we're in. We get the politicians we vote for!

As the neighbour who brought the washing machine yesterday sagely said, they are all thinking of themselves not about the country. How could a minority give even start to work IN IRELAND? Just read the Breaking News item re Michael Martins ideas on this. Makes no sense. As for protests? Are you serious? They achieve nothing. Ireland i the laughing stock of the world at present. I suspect another election would see FG grow as at least they are being more constructive. NB while we have a small homeless problem eg Canada has over 3 million sleeping rough which is the international definition of homeless. Here that term is wrongly used to mean in emergency accommodation.

 

[Purple]

As the neighbour who brought the washing machine yesterday sagely said, they are all thinking of themselves not about the country.

That's exactly what most of the electorate did; we get the politicians we deserve.

 

[Setanta12]

There was a price over the weekend which I thought was very good. Each party obviously believes, as its raison-d'etre that it's aims/ideals will be best for Ireland. Cutting a long story short, each party's self-interest, in their opinion, is the national interest.

And this is why we are the way we are, and where we are right now. The parties are still jockeying for position, and I cannot blame them (when you consider the above).

 

[cork]

In defence of the politicians - FF and FG made it clear before the election that they would not go into coalition with each other.

If they were to ender same, the media would replay those clips over & over.

Reeling in the years 2016?

Reality has finally dawned that we'll have a minority government.

 

[MrEarl]

In defence of the politicians - FF and FG made it clear before the election that they would not go into coalition with each other...

Thats true, in terms of what they said before the election. However, it's seldom that politicans keep to their pre-election promises, regardless of what party they represent.

Post election, it was very clear how the numbers stacked up and what was or was not possible. If these two parties were not prepared to work together, then fine. SF appear to have taken that very position with both FF & FG. Assuming they then spoke to other groups who together could form a majority government with either FF or FG, they should have then called for a second election (one simple reason they did not, there was no way any of them would risk not getting re-elected !).

I have no problem with the politicans telling the people that they simply can't or won't work together and as such, we need another election, but a very serious problem when they are getting paid from State funds, to waste precious time.

What this now, Day 43 (I think) ?

I have started emailing all of my local TDs, informing them how unhappy I am about the current nonsense. My next step will be to write to the President asking him to intervene on behalf of the nation. I really hope I'm not the only one....

 

[cork]

We most certainly need a government.

Many TDs are opportunists - who criticise everything but don't have the solutions.

I hope that a meaningful & detailed programme for government will be worked out.

 

[noproblem]

If we, as the people electing the politicians treat them with insults and mockery, it makes one wonder where our so called wonderful education system and manners is coming from. No more than any other job or profession not everyone in politics is perfect, but branding everyone as being the same is quite an ignorant exercise and says more about the stupidity of the speaker/writer than it does about the person they're trying to belittle. A bit of respect for any person in their job is the least any of us can or should expect. Every Tom, Dick and Harry will tell you what every politician is doing wrong, but I don't see too many having the answers to all our problems and not all created by politicians. Some like to think our top representatives are the laughing stock of Europe and elsewhere but thankfully this is very far from the truth. There is huge respect in Europe and indeed everywhere for Irish reps and as a nation we should learn to show a bit of manners, decency and regard for our politicians in all parties and no parties. If we do that we might find others respecting us a bit more as well.

 

[horusd]

We really do get the politicians we deserve, and we reward gombeenism and cute hoorism. We are a republic in name only in some respects. There was a poster behind Michael Lowry in tipp as he was being carried on the back of jubilant supporters; it read 'Lord Lowry of Tipperary'-utterly sickening and disheartening. We are still doffing the cap to dynasty's and self-serving, self-promoting politicians. Kenny strides around like he won something instead of acknowledging the trouncing FG got. Martin talks about a new way of doing business as if he (and indeed Kenny) hadn't had decades to reform the Dail We have people returned who made settlements with Revenue who have been widely reported as tax cheats. A plague on all their houses.

 

[Leper]

The title of this thread reads:- Have you had enough of the politicians "flapping about" yet?

The answer is Yes. Down the years our politicians have taken the electorate for granted. Many people were stupid enough to vote they way of their parents. Party loyalty was king. The political parties and politicians lost sight of their audience progressively and eventually with the help of many professions managed to bankrupt dear ol' Éire.

Fine Gael and Labour Coalition didn't do a bad job in trying to restore some sort of near honest government. Trouble is they forgot about who put them there and the rich got richer and the rest got poorer. They then tried to convince us that everything had improved and how dare you whinge about being poorer. Another monumental error of judgement.

I am sick of listening to aged tv show audience participants crying to politicians to set their civil war differences aside. The country needs leadership and when I look at what leaders are available, I cringe. You see, once again these elected people are taking us for granted.

They fail to see one in three did not vote in the general election. The amount of spoilt votes, protest votes, votes for duds etc in each constituency amounted to a near election quota. If there is one thing our politicians do not want is another general election. They are visibly frightened about the prospect of going to the country again. And the reason is simple, they now don't know what way the people will vote next time.

If I were a politician who got elected in later counts seven weeks ago I would be now minding my back. I would be screaming at the more senior politicians to form some sort of government and fast. We need leadership, not "flapping about" politicians and if they don't get on with the job they were elected to do, the people will sort the matter. Bring on another general election.

 

[Purple]

Trouble is they forgot about who put them there and the rich got richer and the rest got poorer.

Is that true though? We have had major changed to our taxation system over the last few years and evidence to show that while gross income distribution in Ireland is very uneven our net income distribution, i.e. after tax, is very even. In other words we tax the hell out of high earners.
The Nevin Research Institute, a propaganda vehicle for the Trade Union movement, keeps churning out rubbish about incomes in Ireland but they have no credibility.
TASC are also fond of their reports and if you want to know what their world view is then take a look at this tome which contains gems such as this;
"Much of what determines people’s earnings is a product of their social background and parental assets. Capacities such as intelligence, creativity, physical and social skills, motivation, persistence, confidence and inherited wealth are not distributed fairly. Therefore institutions and polices that reduce inequality are a necessary part of an ethical economy"
Essentially they are saying that people who don't want to work should be helped because their "motivation" "capacity" was "not distributed fairly". In other words if their are lazy and want to sit at home all day watching Jeremy Kyle it's not their fault. You couldn't make it up!

Part of the reason that there is so much hostility towards politicians is that we want our leaders to shield us from the harshness of reality. When things get really bad they can't do that and we hate them for it. Many of us then vote for parties and people with fanciful policies and ideas which promise they will sort out all the problems of a particular group at no cost to that group. Many of us want a government which behaves like a soft parent. We forget that we aren't children.

 

[Deiseblue]

I must admit I hope that this hiatus continues for another while.

With disaffection rising in the ranks of the gardai , the nurses , teachers & the public sector in general allied to the private sector disputes in Tesco & the Luas system ( any solution to the Luas strike will I would imagine set a substantial bar for all sectors ) I hope that any incoming Government will be a extremely nervous minority one thus placing greater pressure on them to resolve this disaffection.

It is interesting to note IBEC calling " for social dialogue on the elements that affect pay " echoing the Indo , Times & most relevantly Kieran Mulvey's calls for similar dialogue between employers , Government & Unions , SIPTU however feel that there may be more traction for members in a " free for all " scenario

 

[Purple]

I must admit I hope that this hiatus continues for another while.

With disaffection rising in the ranks of the gardai , the nurses , teachers & the public sector in general allied to the private sector disputes in Tesco & the Luas system ( any solution to the Luas strike will I would imagine set a substantial bar for all sectors ) I hope that any incoming Government will be a extremely nervous minority one thus placing greater pressure on them to resolve this disaffection.

It is interesting to note IBEC calling " for social dialogue on the elements that affect pay " echoing the Indo , Times & most relevantly Kieran Mulvey's calls for similar dialogue between employers , Government & Unions , SIPTU however feel that there may be more traction for members in a " free for all " scenario

So you want large public sector pay increased in a country which is still borrowing billions to pay for public services. How would you propose paying for those increases?

 

[Leper]

So you want large public sector pay increased in a country which is still borrowing billions to pay for public services. How would you propose paying for those increases?

The government could start by repaying the money virtually stolen from the Public Service to bail Ireland out.

 

[rob oyle]

The government could start by repaying the money virtually stolen from the Public Service to bail Ireland out.

I'm sure Purple can fight his/her own battles but my first thought when reading this was: where does that money come from? Ireland borrowed heavily to continue paying for these services - more than it did to bail out the banks.
If we all agreed that the State finances were unsustainably skewed in the Celtic Tiger, that property and house prices were not realistic then the pay rates at that time were unsustainable too?

 

[44brendan]

The government could start by repaying the money virtually stolen from the Public Service to bail Ireland out.

So that's what happened then!! Our country was bailed out by money "virtually stolen" from the public service. Those of us in the private sector who suffered pay losses/redundancies/reduced hours should now cough up more tax to restore the salary levels of the PS!!
No wish to resurrect an old argument but I can't believe there are people in the PS who actually believe that salary reductions were used to "bail out" the country.

 

[Leper]

There appears to be some belief in these parts that the Public Service had it soft since the beginning of the recession. OK some of the private sector suffered; well at least we read about some of it here. Every member of the Public Service suffered. Do people here really believe that in the Public Service there were no pay losses, increased working week, reduction of holiday entitlements, suppression of posts, cut-backs on recruitment, pension levies (in my case a levy which will be less than my pension entitlement), drastic reductions in overtime, reductions in sick leave entitlements etc, etc?

 

[Sunny]

Yippee. It's 2008 again. I'm no longer old.

 

[Delboy]

There appears to be some belief in these parts that the Public Service had it soft since the beginning of the recession. OK some of the private sector suffered; well at least we read about some of it here. Every member of the Public Service suffered. Do people here really believe that in the Public Service there were no pay losses, increased working week, reduction of holiday entitlements, suppression of posts, cut-backs on recruitment, pension levies (in my case a levy which will be less than my pension entitlement), drastic reductions in overtime, reductions in sick leave entitlements etc, etc?

And if they don't like it they can resign and go look for a job elsewhere. Except very very few of our CS/PS ever do that.

The only time the money was 'stolen' was when the high pay awards were awarded in the 1st place (200?-2007). There is no going back in the near/medium term to Celtic tiger PS/CS salaries. Country can't afford it, Europe won't allow it.