Got some work, but its complicated,need help.

I

ivor james

Registered User
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Okay here goes,delighted to say that today I have been offered some P/T work doing deliveries of fast food to peoples doors, I called in an left my number ages ago but never expected to hear from them so really delighted even if it is such a menial job.

Anyway here is the complication,Wages are 25 euro per night plus 1.50 per take away delivered, from talking to another driver it seems you will make anything from 40 to 70 euro per night,altough he says it used to be a lot better but mostly these days people will collect thier food to save money.

I asked the owner of the establishment if he will be putting me through the books,I have no desire to cheat the system and it is a small town so impossible anyway. The owner says to me that he recently had a visit from the taxman and he is obliged to give the names of all the drivers who work for him, to the revenue.I have no issue with that, however he refuses to put me through the books saying that what I do with the wages are my own business. So do I now have to register asself-employed? Do I have to charge VAT? The owner says he will fill in any form from the social welfare but stops short of registering me,what do I do here?

Just to say it is 3 nights per week 18 hrs in total and I am currently on JA Claiming for my wife who is now unemployed and my 2 children. I also get a mortgage allowance.

I am really looking forward to working again but am a little confused,I dont want to lose my entitlements ,can anyone help?
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

In relation to your mortgage supplement, your earnings will be assessed euro for euro so your entitlement will be reduced or will stop depending on your earnings.
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

Can you please clarify a little more on that Gippiman, I thought that once you worked under 29 hrs you still qualify for Mortgage allowance?

Also from reading the depts website it says I can work upto 3 days and the first 20 euro per day is disregarded and rest is calculated at 60% of the balance,so If I earn say 150 p/w over 3 days I will be stopped 60% of 90 euro which equals 54 euro,is this not correct? That still leaves me with a net figure of 104 euro,my mortgage allowance is 105 euro p/w week now,are you seriously telling me that it will be stopped on a euro for euro basis leaving me with 1 euro for 3 nights work? Not to mention petrol costs ,cant be right surely??
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

The 29 hours only identifies whether you're entitled to apply or not. If you're working over 30 hours per week, that's considered full-time employment and you will be refused Mortgage Interest Supplement regardless of circumstances. If you work less than 30 hours per week, then you're entitled to apply, but qualification depends on the means test.

All income is counted when assessing entitlement to Mortgage Supplement, including your JA (which may be reduced, you will have to check with the SW local office) and your wages. The info you quoted on working up to 3 days, disregards, etc applies to JA only, not to Mortgage Interest Supplement.
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

Okay thanx for that,but just as an aside,when my wife was working,she earned roughly what I am going to earn myself in my PT job,when our claim for JA was finally proscessed,JA was assesed as 23 euro means, and Mortgage alownace was reduced by 40 euro,bringing it down to the level of 105 euro.

Since then she was let go and I have sent in her P45 this last 6 weeks but because of the backlog I am still waiting for the Supplement to be re adjusted to its former level, (less of course the new decreases in june). I would just like to know what formula is used to calculate an entitlement because its does seem very hit and miss, wheras the JA is very upfront and easy to grasp, by my reckoning i should be about the same as i was when my wife was working,certainly the figures are similar.

thanks again gipimann.
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

Thank you again Gipimann it makes things a lot clearer. Can you please tell me how The CWO views employment where a stamp is not being paid due to the fact that I wont be on their books, this is the real problem because as I say, I need to know "HOW" to declare this income, if I were to become PT self employed what do I show to the CWO and the SW? ,no one seems to be able to answer this!
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

I dont think your employer can refuse to put you through the books.

It's been a few years since i had to deal with something similar.

We have people that work for us that are classed as "independant contractors" which means the company pays no tax, prsi, no holiday payments. They are classed as this because they only work as and when we need them. For most of them this is full time work but if we have no work tomorrow then they dont work. Then can also choose when they do and dont work, if they dont want to work tomorrow then they dont. And they only get paid for the amount of work that they do. So no minimum wage comes into it. The harder they work they more they earn.

This isn't like your job, you are going to be given 3 set days each week and your expected to turn up those 3 days. Your not getting a set wage as such but you will get what ever they are paying you for the night plus money for each delivery.

The drivers we employ to over see the "independant contractors" we have to put through the books because they are recieving a set wage each week. And in a way this is what is happening to you, your wages will differ from week to week depending how many deliveries you do, but even if you did no deliveries you would still be paid a rate for the night.

Now i might be worng on this as the busines types are slightly different, but it's how it was explained to be by the revenue.

If you are classed as self employed then you will need to register as self employed. And every year you will have to file your return, and pay tax on your profit.

There's not much you can show the SW at the beginning as you have no records. You would need to open a seperate account and every week lodge what you earned into that account and take all your expense's out of that account. If you use your car just for work then it's pretty straigh forward but if you use it for private use which i assume you will it can get complicated. How much of your insurance/tax/repairs can you write off as expenses i have no idea but they wont allow the full amount.
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

I would be very cautious about becoming self employed, especially 'S' class PRSI. You could suddenly find yourself losing many benefits.
Will also have the hassle of submitting returns and maybe hiring accountants etc. May not be worth it!
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

Thank you so much for your reply Samantha, It really is a tricky situation because there is no way this person is going to put me through,I know he is obliged to but I am afraid to push it because he will just get someone else who is not going to annoy him, he sees it as a casual job ye know? He dosent want the hassle of making me an employee,its either do the job or dont bother!
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

umop3p!sdn said:
I would be very cautious about becoming self employed, especially 'S' class PRSI. You could suddenly find yourself losing many benefits.
Will also have the hassle of submitting returns and maybe hiring accountants etc. May not be worth it!
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Yeah you could well be right, I really just dont want to go down this route for the sake of 40-70 euro per night, might just end up having to leave it,why cant it be easier that all this hassle? I just want to do things legit without being hammered!
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

ivor james said:
Thank you so much for your reply Samantha, It really is a tricky situation because there is no way this person is going to put me through,I know he is obliged to but I am afraid to push it because he will just get someone else who is not going to annoy him, he sees it as a casual job ye know? He dosent want the hassle of making me an employee,its either do the job or dont bother!
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That is the other way that you have to look at things. If you push him on this and he feels your going to be to much hassle then i'm sure he has loads of other people he could ring.

As much as i hate saying this i do think it would be better off for you not to take it. I didn't do all the calculations but being self employed automatically makes you worse off, i know this from experience.

The last few months that we had our company in operation things were really bad and the bf was unable to give himself a wage anymore. Everyone else had to be paid before him and there just wasn't any money left over. I had sort of left the company at this stage and doing my own thing, but my bf was able to go to the social and for a few months he recieved jobseekes and also to get help witht he mortgage payments.

When it was decided that i wanted nothing to do with the company anymore we closed it down and the bf set up again as self employed, he kept the same name just took the "limited" off.

The company still wasn't in a position to start paying him again but because he had become self employed he lost his jobseekers and help with the mortgage re-payments. If we had of know this we would of waited before we did this.

So we had a few months of panick as no money was coming in. I was actually out of the country and we got behind on all of our bills. Things have picked up a bit now which is a good thing and i'm also back and working again.

It still bewilders me who actually comes up with these rules as they dont make any sense at all. They have actually made things worse. For you as one example, if you go ahead and take this job your going to be losing money, so instead you dont and continue claiming. Where as if they made it that by you working you didn't lose out they would save money. Even if you were only earning €100 a week and out of what you are receiving they reduce that by €40. You would still be €60 better of and the goverment would be saving €40. Now considering the mess we are in €40 doesn't sound like much but if you add all of these little figures up it could come to an awful lot of money.
 
Re: Got some work, but its compllicated,need help.

samanthajane said:
That is the other way that you have to look at things. If you push him on this and he feels your going to be to much hassle then i'm sure he has loads of other people he could ring.

As much as i hate saying this i do think it would be better off for you not to take it. I didn't do all the calculations but being self employed automatically makes you worse off, i know this from experience.

The last few months that we had our company in operation things were really bad and the bf was unable to give himself a wage anymore. Everyone else had to be paid before him and there just wasn't any money left over. I had sort of left the company at this stage and doing my own thing, but my bf was able to go to the social and for a few months he recieved jobseekes and also to get help witht he mortgage payments.

When it was decided that i wanted nothing to do with the company anymore we closed it down and the bf set up again as self employed, he kept the same name just took the "limited" off.

The company still wasn't in a position to start paying him again but because he had become self employed he lost his jobseekers and help with the mortgage re-payments. If we had of know this we would of waited before we did this.

So we had a few months of panick as no money was coming in. I was actually out of the country and we got behind on all of our bills. Things have picked up a bit now which is a good thing and i'm also back and working again.

It still bewilders me who actually comes up with these rules as they dont make any sense at all. They have actually made things worse. For you as one example, if you go ahead and take this job your going to be losing money, so instead you dont and continue claiming. Where as if they made it that by you working you didn't lose out they would save money. Even if you were only earning €100 a week and out of what you are receiving they reduce that by €40. You would still be €60 better of and the goverment would be saving €40. Now considering the mess we are in €40 doesn't sound like much but if you add all of these little figures up it could come to an awful lot of money.
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Agree 100% with all of that,again thanx so much for your replies,I am going to try one last time to persuade him to put me through his books otherwise I will have to turn it down,its a joke the way the systems work(or rather DONT work. Also I am happy things are working out for you and your bf now,vry best of luck to you, thank you.
 
I am going to try one last time to persuade him to put me through his books
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Well I'll doubt you'll have any luck. The disadvantages to your potential employer would be:
- Accounting costs
- Possible insurance costs
- Employer PRSI
- Your entitlements (Part time employees are now treated the same as full time employees wrt entitlements. You'll be entitled to holidays etc)

You'll also be in competition with people who don't mind simply taking the money and pocketing it without declaring anything.
 
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