Gordon Elliott

[Duke of Marmalade]

He shouldn't have done it.
But by the outcry you would think he had been caught child trafficking.
I fear the ramifications for him and his staff will be entirely disproportionate.

 

[Purple]

He shouldn't have done it.
But by the outcry you would think he had been caught child trafficking.
I fear the ramifications for him and his staff will be entirely disproportionate.

Yes, the cancel culture where a shrill Twitteratzi is able to ruin people on a person and professional level will, I'm sure, try to out do each other on how offended they are.

How many of his 80 employees will have lost their job by the time the dust settles?

 

[odyssey06]

Looking at the trajectory greyhound racing is on, actions such as this do no favours to horse racings reputation.

 

[Sunny]

I will never cease to be amazed at the pure stupidity of successful and intelligent people to be caught out by mobile phones......

Everyone makes mistakes but on what plannet do you live on where you think using a dead horse as an armchair while on the phone at the same time as someone close to you is taking pictures is not going to end in tears......

Agree that while he should be punished, considering other stories in horse racing at the moment like doping, we need perspective. Having said that, I can't stand the sport as much as I admire the horses and jockeys. Like greyhound racing, feels like it simply exists for gamblers and bookies.....and I know that is unfair

 

[WolfeTone]

A lot of the criticism is from within the horse sector.

Mick Fitzgerald, Ruby Walsh, HRI.

Seriously, if it was a picture of a young lad from Finglas or Ballymun sitting on a dead horse, you know what they would be labelled as.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I will never cease to be amazed at the pure stupidity of successful and intelligent people to be caught out by mobile phones......

Everyone makes mistakes but on what plannet do you live on where you think using a dead horse as an armchair while on the phone at the same time as someone close to you is taking pictures is not going to end in tears......

Agree that while he should be punished, considering other stories in horse racing at the moment like doping, we need perspective. Having said that, I can't stand the sport as much as I admire the horses and jockeys. Like greyhound racing, feels like it simply exists for gamblers and bookies.....and I know that is unfair

@Sunny Ireland hugely over performs in horse racing. You don’t seem to be a fan, I am. We have in recent years beaten England at the National Hunt oscars, Cheltenham winning 17 out of 28 races Last year. This is truly as impressive as if we won the majority of oscars in Hollywood. In 1989 we won 0.
Gordon Elliott has confounded everybody by excelling at the sport, it is a sport, coming from nowhere, he is my hero. More power to Michael O’Leary for standing by him. A lesser person would have feared a PC reaction against Ryanair itself. Reaction totally out of proportion.

Edited thanks to @SGWidow

 

[Sunny]

Hey Duke, no not a fan but I do appreciate the skill and courage of the people involved to get on top of a horse and jump over fences! I also believe that the people involved in racing are involved because they love the animals considering it is low pay and hard work.

However, anytime I tried watching it, the build up is spent talking odds with presenters in the betting ring. Then you walk into a pub and you see people glued to the TV with betting slips in front of them. They have zero interest in the ability of the horses. Just want the result.

Like I say, I know this is unfair and there are people probably like yourself who do genuinely love and appreciate the sport and betting is only a small part of it. I just can't shake the feeling that there is a very ugly underbelly in the sport.

 

[mathepac]

I saw one horse racing supporter on the telly today talking hypocritically about how much respect and love horsey people have for horses. If that is true, why do jockeys beat horses and only get reprimanded, banned or fined if they beat the horse too much? And who decides what's too much? If horses enjoy this "sport" they are involved in, why do they need to be beaten? If they don't enjoy it, why are they forced to perform for the amusement of human adherents to the "sport"?

I know that the disgraced and thankfully dying greyhound racing and coursing industry gets subsidies to the tune of €16.8M of taxpayers money annually. How much do the horse-beaters and dopers get in subsidies?

 

[odyssey06]

@Sunny Ireland hugely over performs in horse racing. You don’t seem to be a fan, I am. We have in recent years beaten England at the National Hunt oscars, Cheltenham winning 17 out of 28 races Last year. This is truly as impressive as if we won the majority of oscars in Hollywood. In 1983 we won 0.
Gordon Elliott has confounded everybody by excelling at the sport, it is a sport, coming from nowhere, he is my hero. More power to Michael O’Leary for standing by him. A lesser person would have feared a PC reaction against Ryanair itself. Reaction totally out of proportion.

Not sure what that has got to do with his actions?
If he was unsuccessful, would you still be trying to mitigate his actions?

As I said, look at the trajectory greyhound racing is on. Giving ammunition to critics of the sport with an own goal like this is why people in the industry are also rounding on him, not just a twitter mob.

 

[Purple]

How much do the horse-beaters and dopers get in subsidies?

About €67 million in direct subsidies plus generous tax breaks but the industry is worth about a third of a billion and is a net contributor to the exchequer.

I agree with @Sunny on the sport generally; it seems to be all about gambling. If there was no gambling would anyone watch it or go to races? Football, GAA and Rugby attract large crowds because people want to watch the events, not gamble on them. Could the same be said of horse racing?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

I agree with @Sunny on the sport generally; it seems to be all about gambling. If there was no gambling would anyone watch it or go to races? Football, GAA and Rugby attract large crowds because people want to watch the events, not gamble on them. Could the same be said of horse racing?

Huge crowds go to Cheltenham and the other highlights of the sport. Ordinary meetings are very poorly attended. Why the difference if it is only about betting? These days betting is a more comfortable experience in front of your TV and with your laptop at the ready. Going to the races actually reduces the betting experience.
However I fully understand that for those with a prudish disposition to betting the association with horse racing will give them a bad taste. For me Betfair is my favourite app though I rarely bet. Seeing the odds is a major contributor to my enjoyment of all sports including political elections. Especially motor racing, I need Betfair to inform me who is actually in front given all these pitstops.

 

[SGWidow]

In 1983 we won 0.

Well after the Supreme Novices of 1983, Ireland had, at that point, won 100% of the races at the 1983 Oscars!

I don't get too excited by the Irish v. English thing but, as it happens, 1983 was a good year for Irish trained horses when the festival was in its pure, undiluted, non-4-day form!

1983 was also the year that the fairer sex had its first success (as a jockey)……..with Caroline Beasley's success on Eliogarty (trained in Meath of all places!)

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Well after the Supreme Novices of 1983, Ireland had, at that point, won 100% of the races at the 1983 Oscars!

There was one year back then (1989) when we got 0, I couldn’t source it so I guessed, sorry. I will correct the post later. I was originally sceptical about the 4 day extension even though in Ireland we do 5 day festivals. But I have got used to it though would not like a further extension.
All the more amazing Ireland’s current dominance, won’t last forever.

@odyssey06 I see that some little known jockey has also been outed for the same offence, but scarcely a whimper. Everyone has agreed that it was stupid including Gordon, Mr Ryanair and the Duke of Marmalade. Point I am making is that given his huge significance in the sport the ramifications will be way OTT.

 

[odyssey06]

@odyssey06 I see that some little known jockey has also been outed for the same offence, but scarcely a whimper. Everyone has agreed that it was stupid including Gordon, Mr Ryanair and the Duke of Marmalade. Point I am making is that given his huge significance in the sport the ramifications will be way OTT.

Ok, I get what you are saying but when it comes to bringing a sport into disrepute the high profile of the person in the sport is a factor, the ramifications are multiplied.
All the more reason people with such profiles (and the rewards that came with it) have a responsibility to conduct themselves properly.
And all the more reason when I don't think the horse racing industry wants the spotlight shined too deeply into its affairs.

 

[Sunny]

Huge crowds go to Cheltenham and the other highlights of the sport. Ordinary meetings are very poorly attended. Why the difference if it is only about betting? These days betting is a more comfortable experience in front of your TV and with your laptop at the ready. Going to the races actually reduces the betting experience.
However I fully understand that for those with a prudish disposition to betting the association with horse racing will give them a bad taste. For me Betfair is my favourite app though I rarely bet. Seeing the odds is a major contributor to my enjoyment of all sports including political elections. Especially motor racing, I need Betfair to inform me who is actually in front given all these pitstops.

I don't have a prudish disposition to gambling but I do recognise that a gambling addiction is probably one of the worst addictions as the damage caused is huge and there is very little focus on it unlike alcohol and other substances. Should also be one of the easier ones to combat but very little appetite exists.

I have no problem with betting being part of sport. People want to flutter then thats fine. But I watch sport because I enjoy the competition. I enjoy watching elite sports people do things that I can only dream about. I enjoy the feeling of watching my team win or even lose. As Purple says, I don't get the feeling that the majority of people watch horse racing or dog racing for any other reason than gambling. They could not give one damn about the brilliance of a Ruby Walsh or the brilliance of a horse like Istabraq. And I don't find that appealing in any sport.

The recent stories about doping in Irish racing as well play a part to be honest. There is too much money on the edges of racing that I think the sport will always have a question mark over its integrity.

Like I say, just a personal feeling. Can't stand formula 1 either if that helps!

 

[SGWidow]

Yep - were it not for Galmoy, Ireland would have had ZERO winners in three consecutive years at the end of the 1980s. [Obviously, Galmoy should never have been allowed to run in Cheltenham because the trainer was married to the daughter of a Fellah who tried to import arms for the IRA??!! And that wasn't even the worst thing that that Fellah did!]

NH racing has lost much of its appeal because success has become, like on the flat, largely a function of the depth of one's pockets. It is simply not exciting watching a 9 horse race made up of 4 Gigginstown, 3 McManus, 1 Rich Ricci and 1 commoner (read regular, as opposed to multi, millionaire).

Compare and contrast this with all the magic that was engendered by dear Tom Foley (RIP) and Danoli.

What's tragic about recent events is that GE must be pure gifted with horses - to have gained the success that he has enjoyed with no moneyed background whatsoever. Like a lot of highly talented people, he may have certain blind spots. It's really sad that he is going to have to pay such a high price for a really stupid action that, I believe, is highly at odds with his general communion with horses.

Two final comments about all of this:

1. "Heav'n has no rage, like love to hatred turn'd, Nor hell a fury, like a woman scorned"; and

2. If I had to go on a long car journey, I still much prefer to sit beside Gordon than Ruby!

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

@SGWidow Interesting points. Of course money talks in many sports, Premier League?
I am really looking forward to this year's Cheltenham. Wille Mullins has I think 9 ante post favourites, probably more with the fall out from Gordon's yard.
I totally disagree with Brian O'Connor (IT) that the winning at Cheltenham is now irrelevant. Though I do agree with him that the BHA are totally hypocritical in outing Gordon so quickly whilst staying mute on their greatest benefactor, Sheik Mohammed.
As for long car journeys I would rather have a dead horse beside me than Mick Fitzgerald.

@Sunny I agree that anybody watching the 2.30 at Redcar is not doing it for the sport. They are either involved or more likely they have a bet. But this is definitely not true of, for example, Cheltenham.
Alcohol can kill, gambling can leave you broke, let's not get into a rabbit hole about which is the worst scourge on society. But alcohol has far more association with sport, including the Gaelic Amateur Association, than betting.

 

[Sunny]

@Sunny I agree that anybody watching the 2.30 at Redcar is not doing it for the sport. They are either involved or more likely they have a bet. But this is definitely not true of, for example, Cheltenham.
Alcohol can kill, gambling can leave you broke, let's not get into a rabbit hole about which is the worst scourge on society. But alcohol has far more association with sport, including the Gaelic Amateur Association, than betting.

Not anymore it doesn't. Days of drinks companies sponsoring GAA are well gone and have been for years. Also the link is not comparing like to like. Racing doesn't just take sponsorship from betting companies. The sport is built around the betting companies and the money it attracts through gambling. You make gambling illegal tomorrow and racing dies (obviously you will still have some form of racing and illegal gambling) but the general interest in the sport just isn't there. It's a minority sport for the genuine fans and I accept that but the general interest in the sport does not warrant the money and coverage it gets.

Even if you take Cheltenham, how many people actually make the 'pilgrimage' are actually doing it because they really value what they are seeing. I have loads of family and friends who make the trip every year and it simply about the experience. Not one of them would ever attend the event without betting. And I would bet (excuse the pun) that this goes for the majority of people there. Which is fine. There are many sporting events that are about the experience for people rather than a genuine love of the sport. But let's not pretend that Cheltenham is full of racing experts commenting on the riding style of the jockeys...Even I have taken days off work to watch Cheltenham in the pub and it's brilliant craic but the attraction isn't the sport itself....

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

@Sunny much of what you say has a ring of truth but might be applying unfair standards. There seems to be a suggestion that with most other sports the majority of followers have an aesthetic appreciation of the skill sets on display. On that basis there is really only room for a handful of GAA teams.
I myself would not find the 2.30 on Lingfield's all weather track at all appealing. But a Gold Cup pitting the best of the Irish versus some English star I find really thrilling, without having a bet. The current heyday of Irish racing certainly enhances my interest.
I concede that betting is much more entwined in the fortunes of the racing industry than in other sports but do I sense a kind of elitist put down of the sport on that count?
Maybe things get a bit clearer if I describe it as an entertainment rather than a sport. In fact isn't all sport just an entertainment for the non participants and truly only a sport for the participants?

 

[SGWidow]

Premier League = Coastal erosion^x………….as in who's got the longest one?

Agree 100% re BHA

Can't say how much I agree about Fitzgerald...…….but many multiples of 100% would be in the ballpark