Goldman Sachs now in the Crypto Exchange business & JP Morgan admit that Crypto is a threat

TheBigShort said:
And for all intents and purposes there is no need for cryptocurrencies.
Until you examine the currency of the ECB, and how in its very short lifetime bankrupted countries and saddled them with mountainous debt.
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Without going too far off topic, I believe countries themselves into trouble rather than the currency itself

TheBigShort said:
Or perhaps, as it transpires, the ECB can basically print as much of the stuff as it wants.
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It could, but it won't. The goal is inflation of 2% as you keep bringing up.

TheBigShort said:
Bitcoin, or other cryptos offer an opportunity to decentralise sovereignty to the individual.
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I agree and it were to really take off it would result in a massive wealth transfer and if you were unlucky enough not to have any you would have diddly squat.

How do you think public services would be funded in a Bitcoin world????
 
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Firefly said:
All very good points, but I would be happier with euros in my bank than Bitcoins on my computer or on some exchange somewhere....
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Well, of course you would as you would NOT store them on an exchange. ;-)
Otherwise, if it's with regard to volatility, I agree completely. Nobody is saying that bitcoin (and crypto's generally) are stable. There can't even be an expectation of them being stable just yet as they have not matured themselves, nor has the eco-system in which they are used been built out yet.
Other than that, nobody is saying that it has to be one way or the other. Cryptocurrencies will exist alongside FIAT. There are certain transactional duties that crypo's can do much better.
 
jman0war said:
The great thing about bitcoin isn't that you are able to transfer value over a decentralized network; it's that nobody can stop you.
That nobody can say to you: you can only transfer so much, you must get my approval first (KYC, AML etc).
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A thought experiment for you. Imagine that the network facilitated the transfer of dollars, euros, bananas whatever. Would that increase the value of the dollar, euro or bananas? We have the incredible irony that because it can only transfer mere digital entries which have no objective value these entries (bitcoin) are given ridiculous speculative prices.
 
Firefly said:
How do you think public services would be funded in a Bitcoin world????
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"Money" could be streamed on a pay-as-you-use basis, down to the millisecond.

Does FIAT currency really do this better? Can you explain it?
Does the Euro do this better than the Irish Punt did?
 
People determine value whether it's euro, dollar, bananas, bitcoin, etc. Your criticism is that a digital currency which everyone accepts hasn't even arrived anywhere close at maturing and is currently subject to major speculation can't succeed? You clearly don't believe that volatility will dissipate as it matures. That's fine - that's your opinion - but it's not an opinion I share.
 
Firefly said:
Without going too far off topic, I believe countries themselves into trouble rather than the currency itself
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Yes, but the adoption of the euro as their currency facilitated the increases in spending.
The punt or drachma would not have been capable of these levels of spending without crashing those currencies.

Firefly said:
It could, but it won't. The goal is inflation of 2% as you keep bringing up.
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How much will they print? They havent put a final figure on it. Latest inflation figures show inflation falling away from 2%.
The notion that they could print as much as they want, but wont, is with respect naive.
Financial history is littered with examples of authoritative assurances to the public, but doing exactly the opposite.
The reality is, if they want to keep printing, you cant stop them.

Firefly said:
I agree and it were to really take off it would result in a massive wealth transfer and if you were unlucky enough not to have any you would have diddly squat.

How do you think public services would be funded in a Bitcoin world????
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You are envisaging a global cryptocurrency world without central authority? We are light years from that, if ever.
But one way public services could be financed is if central authorities accept bitcoin for taxes due. This is proposed in the Senate's of Arizona and Tennesse.
 
TheBigShort said:
The punt or drachma would not have been capable of these levels of spending without crashing those currencies.
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The Greeks were cooking their books long before the Euro arrived. If anything, the Euro, and the scrutiny that came with it, might have saved them from even more significant financial self-destruction.
 
Leo said:
The Greeks were cooking their books long before the Euro arrived. If anything, the Euro, and the scrutiny that came with it, might have saved them from even more significant financial self-destruction.
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But also would deprive them of a method to climb back out: currency devaluation

Greece joined the Euro in 2001.

 
Leo said:
The Greeks were cooking their books long before the Euro arrived. If anything, the Euro, and the scrutiny that came with it, might have saved them from even more significant financial self-destruction.
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They were cooking the books for purpose of meeting the criteria required to join the euro!
 
Leo said:
The Greeks were cooking their books long before the Euro arrived. If anything, the Euro, and the scrutiny that came with it, might have saved them from even more significant financial self-destruction.
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We're definitely going off topic now but if masses of cheap, German Euro wasn't made so easily available to them, maybe they'd never have got to that point in the first place. Furthermore, whilst Greece and Ireland were in the crapper in 08/09, Germany was booming. The ECB implemented policy for Germany - not Ireland or Greece.
TheBigShort said:
They were cooking the books for purpose of meeting the criteria required to join the euro!
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And Germany wanted everyone in the euro so they could sell them all their warez...regardless of whether it was in any ways suitable for the likes of Greece to join the Euro.
 
tecate said:
And Germany wanted everyone in the euro so they could sell them all their warez...regardless of whether it was in any ways suitable for the likes of Greece to join the Euro.
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Exactly, and all this talk of the euro, Ireland, Greece, cooking the books etc just adds weight to the concept of owning your own currency outside of central authority.

Time to buy more bitcoin.
 
TheBigShort said:
But one way public services could be financed is if central authorities accept bitcoin for taxes due.
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Do you really think it would be feasible for Revenue to audit and tax people based on their transactions / profits in Bitcoin to pay your salary? If you do you are some believer!!
 
Firefly said:
Do you really think it would be feasible for Revenue to audit and tax people based on their transactions / profits in Bitcoin to pay your salary? If you do you are some believer!!
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I think the existing model is out-dated and technology is rendering the tax harvesting process archaic and obsolete.
That is the march of progress.
If Revenue want to stay relevant they have to re-invent.
 
I see Bill Gates is no longer a poster boy for bitcoin. Who's left? Branson? If he ever was a bitcoin fan, he said he would accept bitcoin for his space holidays but would immediately convert to real money.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
I see Bill Gates is no longer a poster boy for bitcoin. Who's left? Branson?
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I don't really see how this advances the discussion but just for the record Gates recently stated that he disliked the anonymity aspect of Bitcoin. I'm not sure what your point is or how it relates to the bigger picture? Microsoft still accept bitcoin payments.
Crypto doesn't need 'poster boys'. The tech speaks for itself.

You're nothing if not repetitive on the conversion to FIAT. So what? Once again, you expect a brand new tech and currency to immediately be right up to speed with what's in place already - nevermind the fact it hasn't matured ..nor has the eco system been built out. There's nothing pragmatic or reasonable in that viewpoint.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
I see Bill Gates is no longer a poster boy for bitcoin. Who's left? Branson? If he ever was a bitcoin fan, he said he would accept bitcoin for his space holidays but would immediately convert to real money.
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So he is concerned about its anonymity and its speculative price. Hardly breaking news is it? Perhaps he has been reading the pages of AAM and been suaded by your musings?

It says Steve Wozniack got scammed of Bitcoin through the use of a stolen credit card too. It's not clear from the article if he is still a fan of credits cards!
 
What bitcoin has provided the world, is a paradigm shift.

What is now possible is to start to imagine what the future might bring.
For example:

Decentralized 'companies' that are owned by no person and controlled only by the programmatic rules it runs on.
Companies only existing "in the cloud", in the blockchain as a series of immutable smart contracts.
Contracts that transfer bitcoin to contributers for verified work performed.
It's possible that the 'company' would be created entirely by bots and not even by human programmers.


Taxis are ripe for major disruption.
Self-driving, autonomous taxis that control their own digital funds to re-fuel, recharge, check into repair centres and pay own bills. Accessing live traffic data to self-determine where to find customers and set it's own prices.
Perhaps driving across country to fill a service shortage.

We are crossing into a new paradigm where for the first time in history "Money" is not the exclusive preserve of humanity.

Let Revenue justify it's own existance.
 
Bill Gates without the Dukes inaccurate labelling said:
I think the speculative wave around ICOs and cryptocurrencies is super risky
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Another so what? moment Duke. The level and nature of pricing speculation more recently has been overcooked. There are many errant ICO's. These are secondary to the bitcoin project itself.
 
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