Both items are indicators that the established banking industry recognise that cryptocurrency is here to stay. That's not to say that crypto won't crash and burn (price-wise) as Brendan maintains. However, the price speculation end of things is separate. Crypto will survive regardless of that event taking place.So what you are saying is, if I can interpret all this correctly, is that outside of the 'Bitcoin community', others are starting to see value in crypto?
Crypto pricing could well end up much lower as others on here have speculated. However, crypto itself is here to stay regardless of the pricing speculation.
You can safely take it that nobody is taking bitcoin for anything (except maybe a latte). So I ask the builder in NI how much bitcoin do you want for your house, which he is, say, pricing at £200,000. So he tells me he will accept 20 BTC, which happens to be the correct exchange rate at the time of asking. I tell him I'll confirm that this afternoon. No way, says the builder, you confirm it now imediately so that I can get my £200K. Otherwise the buyer is sitting on a one way bet and with movements of 10% a day not unusual that would be a very bad place to be for the builder. On the other hand I have all the time in the world to pay £200k no matter where the BTC price goes.A building Co in Northern Ireland is now taking Bitcoin as payment for houses. There's also a stud farm selling racehorses for Bitcoin. I have no idea whatsoever if this will boost the "thing" or not, they could all be just taking a punt on it, if so good luck to them. Who knows how they'll get on?
I think the Bitcoin Community are not really grasping the central mantra of the Anti Bitcoin Community.
We can also see the attraction for some of a decentralised currency
personally I prefer my currency to have the guardianship of a central bank like the ECB,
Except that's not actually true, is it? Never heard of overstock.com, expedia.com or microsoft.com? Purse.io maybe? ...no? Granted, it's at a low base and it has had a setback in terms of trying to scale. That doesn't mean to say it's not being used for anything. That's a sweeping generalisation to support your narrative.You can safely take it that nobody is taking bitcoin for anything (except maybe a latte).
So currently, pricing will base off FIAT - so what, Duke? Big deal. If anyone holds BTC, they know that it can swing - and they accept that reality. That wouldn't stop them in buying a house or anything else. They know that it might gain or lose - but I'm sure they would be happy to book it in at the best available price at the time of signing or whatever.So I ask the builder in NI how much bitcoin do you want for your house, which he is, say, pricing at £200,000. So he tells me he will accept 20 BTC, which happens to be the correct exchange rate at the time of asking. I tell him I'll confirm that this afternoon. No way, says the builder, you confirm it now imediately so that I can get my £200K. Otherwise the buyer is sitting on a one way bet and with movements of 10% a day not unusual that would be a very bad place to be for the builder. On the other hand I have all the time in the world to pay £200k no matter where the BTC price goes.
Once again, you are pulling the trigger on btc when it's not even half way towards fully evolving. I hope there are not too many regulators with your mindset as innovation in the crypto space will be truly screwed.Price speculation is something that will settle down over time
You think it's just Venezuelans? There's a long list and it keeps changing year on year. As regards the ECB and the Euro, you think that the ECB enforce policy with Ireland in mind? Is that what we found back in 2008/9? You think that printing off paper on a whim and devaluing the pieces of paper in your wallet or the electronic euro in your bank account serves you - or any of us well? I'm not suggesting we opt out - but I accept that bitcoin (in it's current incomplete form) is imperfect. I don't think you accept the same for your precious euro.ABC folk like myself think blockchain technology is a good thing and will possibly find niche uses for society. We can also see the attraction for some of a decentralised currency though personally I prefer my currency to have the guardianship of a central bank like the ECB, though Venezuelans would admittedly not be in the same position.
Just in case there are any newcomers to this subject here, I will correct this. At no point did Satoshi state that Bitcoin would not succeed as a currency. He recognised certain difficulties it would face is all. The rest you are making up to suit your own narrative.As Satoshi mused it lacks the central requirement of a currency, it has no value.
And he or she will retort - "see that piece of paper you took out of your pocket? It's exactly that - a piece of paper." Or if you whip out your phone - logged in to your AIB A/C and show him / her the Duke's euro wealth, he/she will say "so what, what is it other than that figure you are showing me?"So if someone shows me a figure on her Smart Phone and tells me it is bitcoin and waxes lyrical about all its wonderful technical attributes, I say "so what, what is it other than that figure you are showing me?"
So I ask the builder in NI how much bitcoin do you want for your house, which he is, say, pricing at £200,000. So he tells me he will accept 20 BTC, which happens to be the correct exchange rate at the time of asking. I tell him I'll confirm that this afternoon. No way, says the builder, you confirm it now imediately so that I can get my £200K. Otherwise the buyer is sitting on a one way bet and with movements of 10% a day not unusual that would be a very bad place to be for the builder.
Compare with the retailer in Newry who accepts euro and pounds. She genuinely does accept both currencies because she knows there are customers around who naturally use either one or the other currency. Nobody naturally uses bitcoin for transactions. The gimmick is a publicity stunt. No way is there a person in Larne, say, who now finds it more convenient to buy from the builder.Come on Duke thats not an argument, bitcoin has nothing to do with it!
Noone should take a one way bet, be it on bitcoin, horses, the weather or any currency
B/S read the whole of my musings, it's worth it, believe me. The following is an extract which you appear to have missed. I have added the bold to draw your attention not to promote my Worldview.Wait a second, if something holds attraction to someone, then by its very definition it holds value to that person.
So perhaps bitcoin holds no attraction to you, or Brendan, or others...but if it holds attraction to others then its not uncommon for that attraction, or value, to command a price in a market, is it?
We can also see the attraction for some of a decentralised currency though personally I prefer my currency to have the guardianship of a central bank like the ECB, though Venezuelans would admittedly not be in the same position.
ABCers do not contest that the entry on the blockchain ledger has all the attributes accorded to it by the BCers.
Except one. It is not a currency.
That is not comparable. If you are arguing that the display of itself is worthless, well that is rather trite and I won't attempt to challenge it.And he or she will retort - "see that piece of paper you took out of your pocket? It's exactly that - a piece of paper." Or if you whip out your phone - logged in to your AIB A/C and show him / her the Duke's euro wealth, he/she will say "so what, what is it other than that figure you are showing me?"
Yes, as I already mentioned.decentralised currency would have attraction for some but not me
And he or she will retort - "see that piece of paper you took out of your pocket? It's exactly that - a piece of paper."
I think you misunderstood that.But we do not have a decentralised currency, not until we can satisfy Satoshi's plea to give value to the entries. Arguing that they have value because they are decentralised is circular, but hey we have been here before, we are going around in circles.
Just because we've always done something one way, it can never change? Really enlightening, Duke - seriously. Bitcoin is moving from a standing start. You dismiss it even though it's still evolving and still has not matured and you expect that it should be used by everyone today or if not, it's useless. I really don't share your viewpoint and I don't think it's reasonable of anyone who does.Compare with the retailer in Newry who accepts euro and pounds. She genuinely does accept both currencies because she knows there are customers around who naturally use either one or the other currency. Nobody naturally uses bitcoin for transactions. The gimmick is a publicity stunt. No way is there a person in Larne, say, who now finds it more convenient to buy from the builder.
Firstly, it's clear as night and day that it's decentralised. Otherwise - and you keep doing this, but don't worry, I'll keep correcting it as I don't want anyone to be misinformed - Satoshi didn't 'plea' for anything. You colour his comments with your own narrative. Satoshi identified a problem to be overcome is all. Furthermore, Bitcoin has overcome that problem as it has attained value. The only debate is whether it will keep it (and I'd say that to be successful, it doesn't have to be the current valuation - it can be a hell of a lot less...it just needs to shake the volatility).But we do not have a decentralised currency, not until we can satisfy Satoshi's plea to give value to the entries.
I completely and utterly disagree. The paper in your pocket is just that - paper. The digital entry in your bank account is just a number. There is no difference between them other than FIAT has established a level of sentiment. Bitcoin attempts to do so.That is not comparable. If you are arguing that the display of itself is worthless, well that is rather trite and I won't attempt to challenge it.....Bitcoins means nothing other than it is a digital entry on a blockchain.
Same point as above, Firefly. A central bank backs a FIAT currency? What meaning does that have? The gold standard was dropped by the Brits in 1931 & the Americans finally killed it off in 1971. That gave way for FIAT - which by it's very meaning - implies that it's decreed as currency by governments. Guess what - governments fail and economies fail. In any given year, there is a list of such economies.Except that piece of paper is backed by the ECB which in turn is underpinned by the 2nd largest economy in the world, representing 22% of the global economy and some 500 million people....
Except that piece of paper is backed by the ECB which in turn is underpinned by the 2nd largest economy in the world, representing 22% of the global economy and some 500 million people....
Same point as above, Firefly. A central bank backs a FIAT currency? What meaning does that have? The gold standard was dropped by the Brits in 1931 & the Americans finally killed it off in 1971. That gave way for FIAT - which by it's very meaning - implies that it's decreed as currency by governments. Guess what - governments fail and economies fail. In any given year, there is a list of such economies.
Furthermore, government may decree it but it's still a system where sentiment dictates. The euro has had some rocky times not that long ago. Nothing is impossible. Furthermore, the electronic euro entry in your bank account can be subject to a haircut. Where was the ECB when Bank of Cyprus depositors had 47.5% of their savings wiped out? You'll recall we were pretty close to it ourselves. I recall the scramble that was going on amongst AAM'ers - searching europe for safe-haven banks to store their euro. That can't happen with a decentralised system.
The point is that be it bitcoin or euro, they are just entries and all that 'backs' then is sentiment. The only difference is that Euro is more established and matured. It would be prudent of people to withhold their judgement until cryptocurrencies have matured. Hope for some in that respect but at this point, I don't expect the Duke to climb out of his entrenched position and embrace that idea.
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