further part 4 tenancy

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galway_blow_in

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i currently have tenants ( married couple ) living in my two bed apartment , the tenancy was only registered in march of 2015 by the receiver ( bought at auction last october ) but the tenants are living there since june of 2012 , i spoke to the PRTB today and they told me i am obliged to correct the record as to when the tenancy began and to not do so , risks incurring a five thousand euro fine

according to citizens information website , if a four year tenancy ends , a new one then begins , however it also states that the landlord has six months from the beginning of this new tenancy in which to terminate the tenancy , it does however state that the tenant must be given sixteen weeks notice , if the new tenancy for my property has effectively commenced in june of 2016 and i have six months in which to terminate the tenancy , would the fact that a sixteen week notice period be given to the tenants , rule out my option to terminate the tenancy?

my calendar tells me this would bring me up to january 1st , seven months after the commencement of the new tenancy
 
You may serve a Notice of Termination at any time during the first 6 months of a Further Part 4 tenancy. The notice period runs from the date of the NoT. If you serve a NoT after the first 6 months then you have to use one of the grounds available and state under which ground/s you are serving the NoT.

However, if a new fixed term contract has been signed then you cannot break that contract unless there is a break clause (or similar) in that agreement.

would the fact that a sixteen week notice period be given to the tenants , rule out my option to terminate the tenancy?

I don't follow your reasoning. You may serve a NoT at any time during the first 6 months of a Further Part 4 tenancy. You must also give the 112 days notice period. You could, for example, serve a NoT on the last ady of the 6 month period, which will obviously bring the tenancy beyond the first six months, but as long as the NoT is served before the last day there is no problem.
 
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facetious said:
You may serve a Notice of Termination at any time during the first 6 months of a Further Part 4 tenancy. The notice period runs from the date of the NoT. If you serve a NoT after the first 6 months then you have to use one of the grounds available and state under which ground/s you are serving the NoT.

However, if a new fixed term contract has been signed then you cannot break that contract unless there is a break clause (or similar) in that agreement.

would the fact that a sixteen week notice period be given to the tenants , rule out my option to terminate the tenancy?

I don't follow your reasoning. You may serve a NoT at any time during the first 6 months of a Further Part 4 tenancy. You must also give the 112 days notice period. You could, for example, serve a NoT on the last ady of the 6 month period, which will obviously bring the tenancy beyond the first six months, but as long as the NoT is served before the last day there is no problem.
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thank you for your reply , i thought perhaps it was necessary to fit the sixteen week notice period within the six months

i imagine its easier said than done to ensure the tenants actually vacate the property , were they to refuse to leave , i would still have to go down the usual eviction route
 
just one more question , if i were to issue my tenants with a rent review notice and they pretty much ruled out agreeing very quickly , could i issue them with a notice to terminate tenancy afterwards ?
 
You would have to wait until they either:
1. raised a dispute with the RTB
2. Come into rent arrears.

You cannot serve a NoT just because they said they would/have ruled out any increase.

It is always better to try and negotiate a mutually acceptable rent within the "market rate". If you have all your information to hand:- asking price for three similar properties in the area, the amount of the new rent plus about four other requirements. Also, remember that if you had a rent review last year (or signed a new lease agreement) you cannot have another review until next year. And you must give 90 days notice of a rent review/increase.

Also, if they are "good" tenants, they may be better at a lower rent than a new tenant whom you do not know, at a higher rent. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush, so to speak.
 
If tenants signed a lease in March 2015 and it was extended at March 2016 for a further year, what is the earliest date a rent review can take place?
Legislation says 2 years, so no rent increase until March 2017, understand that.

Does that mean one has to wait until at least March 2017 before even communicating planned rent increase sought? As three months notice required then the rent increase would not be effective until June 2017?

Or can the proposed rent increase by communicated within the 2 year period, however it cannot take effect until after the 2 year period? Could I have a communication with the tenants this side of Christmas 2016 and then have the rent increased from March 2017 onwards?

Wasn't the intention of the legislation to limit increase to every 2 years? If one cannot even communication within the 2 year period then in reality the rent review period is at least 2 years 3 months?

Intention would always be to agree with the tenants of course, however important to be clear on communications and timelines also.

(I gave the tenants a discount to the rents when they moved in in March 2015 expecting that I could increase rent somewhat a year later, but then the 2 year rule came in. Reality is their rent is now 30% below market, in a house in negative equity and on-going mortgage payments way ahead of rents. Unsustainable. And that is before I event pay any tax on it which is also steep. I want to make sure that any budgetary changes this year don't snooker me further, e.g. limiting future rent increase to CPI or something like that. I would prefer to agree and communicate before the budget if possible.)

Thanks.
 
A landlord reviews the rent of a dwelling on 1 January 2016 by serving a 90 day notice of rent review indicating that the change will take effect from the 1 April 2016.

A subsequent Notice of Rent Review can not be issued until 1 January 2018 and must also provide 90 days notice prior to the change taking effect.
 
Thanks. That applies to an on-going review situation.

My question is a specific one re what happens after two years of move in. Tenant signs lease say 25 April 2015 on a one year lease from 1 May 2015 to 30 April 2016. A second lease, no rent change as within 2 years, agreed from 1 May 2016 to 30 April 2017.

What happens then? Can the landlord give 90 days notice on 30 January 2017 (or earlier) that rent will increase from 1 May 2017?

Or is the requirement under the 2 year rule to wait until at least 25 April 2017 (i.e. 2 years from the first lease signature dates) and then give a further 90 days?
 
My understanding is that the rent will increase (or decrease) on the anniversary date of the lease. The 90 day notice must precede that date - that is, during the period of the lease agreement.

Gerard123 said:
What happens then? Can the landlord give 90 days notice on 30 January 2017 (or earlier) that rent will increase from 1 May 2017?
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Yes, you may serve the Notice of rent review in January, giving the tenant the required 90 day notice. It is always advisable to give several days extra so there can be no dispute over the 90 day period.
 
Gerard123 said:
If tenants signed a lease in March 2015 and it was extended at March 2016 for a further year, what is the earliest date a rent review can take place?
Legislation says 2 years, so no rent increase until March 2017, understand that.

Does that mean one has to wait until at least March 2017 before even communicating planned rent increase sought? As three months notice required then the rent increase would not be effective until June 2017?

Or can the proposed rent increase by communicated within the 2 year period, however it cannot take effect until after the 2 year period? Could I have a communication with the tenants this side of Christmas 2016 and then have the rent increased from March 2017 onwards?

Wasn't the intention of the legislation to limit increase to every 2 years? If one cannot even communication within the 2 year period then in reality the rent review period is at least 2 years 3 months?

Intention would always be to agree with the tenants of course, however important to be clear on communications and timelines also.

(I gave the tenants a discount to the rents when they moved in in March 2015 expecting that I could increase rent somewhat a year later, but then the 2 year rule came in. Reality is their rent is now 30% below market, in a house in negative equity and on-going mortgage payments way ahead of rents. Unsustainable. And that is before I event pay any tax on it which is also steep. I want to make sure that any budgetary changes this year don't snooker me further, e.g. limiting future rent increase to CPI or something like that. I would prefer to agree and communicate before the budget if possible.)

Thanks.
Click to expand...

the tenants moved in to the property in mid june 2012 ( something i only learned recently ), the property was seized by a receiver in early march of 2015 and for whatever reason ( convenience perhaps ) he slapped a commencement date of march 2015 , obviously the previous landlord had no tenancy in place

i was told by the PRTB recently that i needed to start a new tenancy after telling them the tenants were in the property since mid 2012 , its more money for the PRTB as i sent them a cheque for 180 euro the other day and so the new further part 4 tenancy will commence in mid june of 2016 , thus allowing me until december to issue a tenancy termination notice and i am not obliged to give a reason either , that the original tenancy was backdated to mid 2012 also allows me to have a rente review

i would be happy enough to keep them on if they agreed to a rent raise but dont want to blow a narrow window of opportunity to evict them if they kick up over an increase , they have been paying a very low rent for the past four years , ive decided to raise the issue with them orally during a visit to the property , i have until mid december to issue a termination notice if the reaction is very negative

a further point , the PRTB are chronically poor when it comes to mixed details depending on who you are talking to , when i bought the property nearly a year ago , i was told that i could not have a rent review until march of 2017 , when i told another staff member a few weeks ago that the tenants were living there since 2012 , they told me i needed to backdate the commencement date of the tenancy or potentially face a five grand fine

all over the place
 
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