Fuel Prices

joe sod

Registered User
Messages
1,485
We are being fleeced here on fuel prices at the pumps, anybody see a drop when, last year, you couldn't give
crude oil away? But let it go up $5 dollars a barrel and practically overnight it's reflected at the pumps.
That ultra low price reached a year ago was only a technical trading thing whereby traders were not able to take physical delivery of the oil they had forward bought and had to sell it any price . Of course it was widely reported in the media as if it was a new world where we were moving beyond oil to a "new normal" etc etc. Like alot of this stuff it was wildly exagerrated , yes the corona pandemic resulted in a demand shock where the demand for oil fell dramatically because of the travel bans. The price of oil is set by the marginal barrel of oil so if you produce a few million barrells above or below the demand it has a dramatic effect. Thats why OPEC was established and they have been largely successful at controlling supply in order to keep supply around demand levels and obtain the best price. However even with dramatic effects of the corona pandemic the demand for oil was still only about 8% less than in 2019,
In 2019 100 million barrels per day were consumed
in 2020 it fell to 92 million barrels per day
in 2021 it is estimated to be back at 97 million barrels per day
Therefore the gradual year on year increase in oil consumption will carry on as before, whatever cut back happens in Europe and elsewhere will be taken up by the developing world
 

FANTANA

Registered User
Messages
47
Hello,

I think much of the problem is caused by a view that when oil prices, vat etc. are reduced, consumers feel that these benefits aren't passed on, or are only passed on slowly and in part...

However, as soon as there is any reason whatsoever to justify a price increase, the local fuel stations increase the prices immediately.

Personally, I'm not satisfied that we are treated fairly.

I've previously discussed the issue with a few forcourt owners, who all claimed that prices were increased or decreased, when they received their next delivery of fuel. However, I don't believe that's the only trigger for prices increasing (otherwise, its some coincidence that so many stations get deliveries so promptly, after the price of a barrel of oil goes up on a given day etc.).

The AA used to be good at championing the consumer's cause, but I don't think they've had a lot of support from the public over the years, so they are losing interest / influence. Maybe we need to show them that we still need them?

Then we've the various consumer watchdogs, politicans etc. who tell us to shop around - which is a load of nonsense, as you'll spend more on fuel driving to a cheaper station, with the additional cost outweighing the potential benefit.

EVs are becoming more popular, as are solar panels on private houses, storage batteries etc. So the day is coming where more of us will be able to partly / fully source our own power, to run our vehicles. I, for one, can't wait...
We have already gone EV. Fuel costs alone down 80% of our petrol car. Not including cheaper tax, insurance and servicing costs.
 

joe sod

Registered User
Messages
1,485
We have already gone EV. Fuel costs alone down 80% of our petrol car. Not including cheaper tax, insurance and servicing costs.
but remember 65% of petrol prices are taxation, , currently you are paying zero tax on electricity for your car, the government has to get that lost tax somewhere, they will have to tax electricity for cars especially as the government now has a ginormous bill for the pandemic. Most of the power generated still comes from fossil fuels anyway, yes wind power can supply 40% at times , alot of the time producing close to zero like today
 

FANTANA

Registered User
Messages
47
but remember 65% of petrol prices are taxation, , currently you are paying zero tax on electricity for your car, the government has to get that lost tax somewhere, they will have to tax electricity for cars especially as the government now has a ginormous bill for the pandemic. Most of the power generated still comes from fossil fuels anyway, yes wind power can supply 40% at times , alot of the time producing close to zero like today
Oh no doubt, but for now as an early adopter and having bought a second hand EV there is very little downside. Even got a grant for the charger.
 

MrEarl

Registered User
Messages
2,241
Hi Fantana,

What kind of EV did you buy, and what sort of journeys would you normally be making (assuming no lockdown) please?

I gather that the Leaf is doing very well, while the Prius has been a long term favorite - albeit its not a true EV.

I've been looking at some of the EVs that are launching in Asia, cars from NIO and XPeng both long great, but are probably a few years away from entering the Irish Market.
 
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FANTANA

Registered User
Messages
47
Hi Fantana,

What kind of EV did you buy, and what sort of journeys would you normally be making (assuming no lockdown) please?

I gather that the Leaf is doing very well, while the Prius has been a long term favorite - albeit its not a true EV.

I've vern looking at some of the EVs that are launching in Asia, cars from NIO and XPeng both long great, but are probably a few years away from entering the Irish Market.
Hi Earl its a 30kwh leaf Tekna. Bought it for my wife for the school run, shopping etc. Was a bit anxious about the public charging network but as a second car we have done all our charging at home. It does about 120km in winter and 150km in summer so more than comfortably for trips around town. Owning cars in Ireland is expensive business but an EV is really a very good option especially as a second car. I will keep my ICE car for now but in a few years I’d look to replace that with the likes of an E Niro, Hyundai Ioniq or a VW ID4. Over the next couple of years there are many options well capable of 400-500km per charge and are proper replacements of ICE. An EV is a pleasure to drive compared to petrol and diesel. I think once most driver switch to EV they will wonder why they didn’t do it sooner. When solid state batteries arrive in say five years petrol and diesel will be finished.
 

SparkRite

Registered User
Messages
1,702
apart from planes, trains, HGVs, ships, motor-cycles, lawn-mowers, chain-saws, construction equipment.
Or indeed any device that needs to carry that amount of potential energy in a small relatively accessible container. :)
 

MrEarl

Registered User
Messages
2,241
I think NIO have a great solution - sell the cars, but provide the batteries as a service.

The cars are significantly cheaper on Day 1, batteries can be swapped in under 5 minutes, some reports say under 3 minutes.

The cars won't devalue at the and rate as a car with a built in battery, that loses life as the years go on.


Their vehicles look good, albeit they are only really selling in China to date - with first exports having only recently gone to Norway.

 
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joe sod

Registered User
Messages
1,485
Oil prices up over $70 a barrel today and the airlines are barely flying , what will it be when they start back up again? Of course OPEC will increase production to meet that demand. But OPEC are back in the driving seat now and have wrestled back control of the oil price. The brave new future of zero fossil fuels is still a long way into the future along with those hover boards from "Back to the future ", sure we were supposed to be flying around in those last year
 

joer

Registered User
Messages
556
Diesel was 1.35.8 in Carlow town this morning , with the local cartel, It is gone up by 3 cents per litre in just over one week...
 

RedOnion

Frequent Poster
Messages
6,190
It is gone up by 3 cents per litre in just over one week..
Looks consistent. I couldn't make up my mind on Monday if I should order heating oil, and by the time I ordered it on Friday it had gone up 26 euro with all 4 suppliers in my area (+2.6c per litre)
 

RichInSpirit

Registered User
Messages
952
Saw diesel for €1.289 in a petrol station I pass on the way to work. It's normally 10 cents dearer per litre than where I buy it but now it's cheaper. I think that they have a slower turnover of fuel than where I get it.
 

vandriver

Registered User
Messages
1,885
People make strange choices about what costs they focus on.
People will travel out of their way to save a cent or two on fuel prices (maybe saving a euro) .
People also stay with the same energy suppliers for gas and electric for years,costing many hundreds a year,and have loyalty to a car insurance company that blatantly rips them off.
 
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