France recalls Ambassadors to US and UK
Not the actions of an ally. Nuclear partners have had their noses put out of place apparently.
Not the actions of an ally. Nuclear partners have had their noses put out of place apparently.
France recalls Ambassadors to US and Aus
- Thread starter WolfeTone
- Start date
'One of the gravest rifts amongst allies in living memory'
And China is also a little peeved
China reaction
And China is also a little peeved
China reaction
Duke of Marmalade
Registered User
- Messages
- 4,429
And they said Afghanistan was the beginning of the end for US influence. Clearly the Ozies weren't listening.
Who said that?
It upset the French and Chinese? As if there was any doubt if the was the right move...
This is one of the gravest rifts between Allies? Are they having a laugh?
As ever the French expect one set of rules for them, and one for everyone else.
www.history.com
This is one of the gravest rifts between Allies? Are they having a laugh?
As ever the French expect one set of rules for them, and one for everyone else.
When France Pulled the Plug on a Crucial Part of NATO | HISTORY
It was the first major crisis faced by the alliance, and it shook member nations deeply.
www.history.com
Duke of Marmalade
Registered User
- Messages
- 4,429
Fintan O'Toole to name but a few, maybe your good self.
Wolfe Tone said:
Last edited:
Ah yes, diminishing influence, not the end of their influence.
I could of course be wrong and it would appear that the US may have increased its influence in the military affairs of UK and Oz.
But when a NATO ally withdraws its ambassador, whether it is nothing more than a petulant spat or not, it would certainly suggest a diminishing influence with that ally.
But that is just my take on such matters.
I thought they recalled the ambassadors of US and Oz not UK, they are of the opinion that the US and Oz were the main movers in all this.
Another big bubu caused by Biden he is doing more harm to transatlantic relations than any of his predecessors including Trump, they didn't recall their ambassador when Trump pulled out of the Paris climate change agreement so this is alot bigger.
The French are right to be angry, this was a 30 billion dollar contract and they had already spent alot of money building a factory to fulfill this contract. You can't just renege on contracts like that
The right wing media in the US have a mock up of Biden dressed in Taliban garb with the caption
Last edited:
If anyone has lost influence here... it is surely ... France?
I think it works both ways? US and France have lost influence with each other?
I'm no expert in these matters but a diplomatic channel for the US with France/ France with US has closed, most likely temporarily, but nevertheless the purpose of withdrawing ambassador is to to close off diplomatic channel.
By any definition, influence has been diminished?
Not sure, seems as far as these country's relations are concerned the positions are mostly symbolic/bureacratic and this was a symbolic act.
I don't think US influence over France is in any way changed by today's events, or vice versa.
What occurs to me is that the US would not have done this in the 1980s when their priority was countering the USSR in Europe...
Now the US focus is on China and Australia is a more important ally in that region - albeit that France has a larger military.
So whatever influence the US & France have versus each other is a reflection of that change far more so than this particular contract.
Yes, in this regard you are probably right. More a symbolic act than anything substantive in real political affairs.
Of course it has they left France out in the cold and went behind their backs to do this, France could have provided the aussies with nuclear powered submarines if they had of been ordered back in 2016. Also the Japanese are annoyed that they have also been left out , of anyone the Japanese are the most determined to counter China and protect Taiwanese independance. After the Afghanistan debacle nobody trusts that Biden will back up anybody when push comes to shove except for the Brits and the Aussies, another nail in the coffin for NATO
Would the French have shared that tech with the Aussies? Not sure... I know they have partnerships to build conventional subs with other European powers.
Edit - the French nuclear subs need charging which the Aussies didn't want to take on which is why in 2016 they went with conventional subs.
The American ones don't, or maybe can be charged at US bases (article was unclear).
That's an interesting point re: the Japanese.
Last edited:
well then that proves that the French are correct and the australians are at fault because they are now reneging on a contract which the French entered into in good faith . Maybe they have some sneaky get out clause but thats not the way you carry on with allies.
The French are obviously thinking that the Anglo countries are leaving them out in the cold and forming their own little club again. The one thing about Trump is that he actually had a very good relationship with Macron and he said everything out in the open for good or bad, there was none of this sneakiness and going behind people's backs like is happening now.