OP, just do up a list and see what revenue say. If they disagree with something they will come back to you. You may have incorrectly claimed something and you wouldn't be the first, but you didn't do so deliverately and revenue are not always the enemy so just supply what they want and see what they say. .
Form 12-revenue requesting more info
- Thread starter guideanna
- Start date
I think that they have a duty to help taxpayers in filling out their tax returns and to explain their rules to tax payers ?
Thanks for your input but i'm only interested in my original query.
I'll be doing the form 12 myself next year too, no way i'd be paying some accountant when i'm fully capable of doing it myself. Waste of money...."in my opinion"!!
You've shown that you're incapable of preparing and submitting an income tax return correctly and your "waste of money" comment is just ridiculous (especially coming from someone who is effectively "feeling around in the dark" when it comes to the taxation of rental income).
A tax consultant could and would save you money. Plus the expense should be deductible.
As things stand right now, you've submitted a dodgy tax return to Revenue. You're now a prime candidate for a Revenue audit where they'll examine every facet of your affairs. This may turn up further errors and may necessitate a more costly engagement with an accountant.
"Waste of money" indeed...
hastalavista
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While I think Geeko' wording a little harsh, I agree with the sentiment, especially when you read
Its easy to say mixed up now that the light is on, but supposing stuffing the F12 with the kitchen had slipped under the radar you would have ploughed on merrily.
Whether its easily fixed or not remains to be seen, as gekko has pointed out it could trigger a deluge as the new software they have just looks for this stuff.
In closing, if you are as arrogant and self-opinionated with the Revenue as you are here, they may not even use the jello
Its easy to say mixed up now that the light is on, but supposing stuffing the F12 with the kitchen had slipped under the radar you would have ploughed on merrily.
Whether its easily fixed or not remains to be seen, as gekko has pointed out it could trigger a deluge as the new software they have just looks for this stuff.
In closing, if you are as arrogant and self-opinionated with the Revenue as you are here, they may not even use the jello
In closing, if you are as arrogant and self-opinionated with the Revenue as you are here, they may not even use the jello
Isn't that a bit over the top to a newish poster?
T McGibney
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That may be so, but I wasn't talking about that.
Btw Revenue's routine policy is to disown any 'explanations' they give to taxpayers, if any aspect of same later becomes contentious.
I agree with you there that's why it's always best to get it in writing from them if one can which is not easy to do.
And apologies if I misunderstood you.
T McGibney
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No worries. Indeed, if advice is received in writing (eg email) it can be produced if needed at a later stage, but unfortunately if verbal 'advice' is disowned, its worthless.
Just to come back to all you so helpful posters. Rang revenue to check they received my letter with the breakdown of CA claim. My application is now being processed and they said no further information will be required at this time.
IF they do require any further information i will obviously be more than happy to supply this....without any assistance from an accountant unless i see their service fit to attain.
Thanks so much for all the helpful posts.
And to those judgemental name callers telling me i'm "feeling around in the dark" and "ridiculous"....well....that may be so, but for the moment i've answered what revenue required of me without the paid help of anyone so i think i did ok for a first timer!
IF they do require any further information i will obviously be more than happy to supply this....without any assistance from an accountant unless i see their service fit to attain.
Thanks so much for all the helpful posts.
And to those judgemental name callers telling me i'm "feeling around in the dark" and "ridiculous"....well....that may be so, but for the moment i've answered what revenue required of me without the paid help of anyone so i think i did ok for a first timer!
You branded accountants "a waste of money", yet because of your refusal to seek professional advice, you've submitted a dodgy tax return and left yourself open to the prospect of a Revenue Audit.
You now know that the capital allowances claim that you submitted is questionable but you've allowed it to stand. You are now therefore in "deliberate behaviour" territory (rather than "careless behaviour") for tax purposes. You've a legal and moral obligation to correct your tax return, yet based on your most recent post it appears that you do not intend doing do. It looks like we can now add dishonesty to the ignorance and stubborness reflected in your earlier posts.
gekko in what way is my form 12 "dodgy"? I was asked to supply additional information, if revenue decide to audit me i have nothing to hide. if i made a mistake on the form listing expenses as capital allowances then i will put my hands up but i don't think this is the case and thus far revenue have not requested anything more from me.
Your telling me i've an obligation to correct my form but as far as i am aware i have everything in line so you telling me i'm dishonest is as well as ignorant and stubborn is way out of line.
In my opinion (as i've already said) to pay an accountant to fill in a form i'm capable of doing myself is A WASTE OF MY MONEY!!!! If i felt i wasn't able to do it i would have hired someone. You have got your knickers in a knot over this point as you keep coming back to it but there are no laws against filing my own tax returns and so much to your delight i'm sure i will stand by my decision.
No problems so far, revenue are well within their rights to request additional information and also well within their rights to request further info or even audit my accounts. As i said i have nothing to hide.
Won't be replying again as i don't see the point when you've clearly made up your mind about me.....so here is the last word....enjoy it!!
Your telling me i've an obligation to correct my form but as far as i am aware i have everything in line so you telling me i'm dishonest is as well as ignorant and stubborn is way out of line.
In my opinion (as i've already said) to pay an accountant to fill in a form i'm capable of doing myself is A WASTE OF MY MONEY!!!! If i felt i wasn't able to do it i would have hired someone. You have got your knickers in a knot over this point as you keep coming back to it but there are no laws against filing my own tax returns and so much to your delight i'm sure i will stand by my decision.
No problems so far, revenue are well within their rights to request additional information and also well within their rights to request further info or even audit my accounts. As i said i have nothing to hide.
Won't be replying again as i don't see the point when you've clearly made up your mind about me.....so here is the last word....enjoy it!!
Whatever you have submitted to revenue, and especially when you have a doubt, you are entitled to put in a letter mentioning that you have a doubt in relation to x matter. Then you put the onus on revenue to clarify/refuse etc. You can actually call in to revenue and if you have documents get them to photocopy and stamp the photocopies so later if there is an audit that it is clear that you raised a doubt and that revenue were on notice.
T McGibney
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This is all news to me. There is an 'expression of doubt' box on the Form 11 which may be ticked as appropriate. (Many tax professionals believe that ticking this box exponentially increases the risk of Revenue Audit, although some sources contest this). Otherwise, Revenue generally discourage the adding of notes, addendums etc to tax returns.
I don't know anything about the box on the form 11. But I have visited revenue with a letter outlining how I treated a matter in relation to rental income and can't remember exactly what I said but something like,
'I've treated this cost in x manner and if this is incorrect please let me know'
It was worded that way rather than a direct question (as I did not want to open a can of worms) so that they didn't have to actually reply. Civil servants prefer it that way.
And revenue photocopied and stamped each page for me so I have proof that they received it. The lady I dealt with was most kind, had a very sad story to tell me and wanted to work where I did at the time and she suggested the photocoping and stamping and she had no interest whatsoever in what I wrote. Revenue don't want paperwork. If I recall correctly it was Xmas eve morning and I was stressed about the matter, because I worry about getting my taxes done correctly.
If they have an issue with my tax treatment later they cannot come back and tell me I didn't raise a doubt. Personally all I'm worried about is that if I did something wrong they cannot charge me penalties and interest, only tax which I have no problem with.
No doubt my letter has gotton lost, was briefly read, if at all, and left on someone's desk for a year, or two and then filed in the archives, hopefully under my file. Or not.
I cannot remember now what my issue was but at a guess it was probably wear and tear as that is the most tricky (I find) in relation to rental income.
'I've treated this cost in x manner and if this is incorrect please let me know'
It was worded that way rather than a direct question (as I did not want to open a can of worms) so that they didn't have to actually reply. Civil servants prefer it that way.
And revenue photocopied and stamped each page for me so I have proof that they received it. The lady I dealt with was most kind, had a very sad story to tell me and wanted to work where I did at the time and she suggested the photocoping and stamping and she had no interest whatsoever in what I wrote. Revenue don't want paperwork. If I recall correctly it was Xmas eve morning and I was stressed about the matter, because I worry about getting my taxes done correctly.
If they have an issue with my tax treatment later they cannot come back and tell me I didn't raise a doubt. Personally all I'm worried about is that if I did something wrong they cannot charge me penalties and interest, only tax which I have no problem with.
No doubt my letter has gotton lost, was briefly read, if at all, and left on someone's desk for a year, or two and then filed in the archives, hopefully under my file. Or not.
I cannot remember now what my issue was but at a guess it was probably wear and tear as that is the most tricky (I find) in relation to rental income.
mandelbrot
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While this may have been the case in the past, I think in these days of "aspect queries" and "profile interviews" expressions of doubt will not necessarily result in an audit, except to the extent that they contribute to a higher overall level of perceived risk in a case that was already heading towards being an audit anyway...
I suppose from Revenue's point of view it makes perfect sense to follow up on expressions of doubt to ensure everything is OK, but sinking their resources into audits solely in order to do that wouldn't be very efficient use of those resources.
T McGibney
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Hi M,
Indeed, point noted. There may or may not be any rational basis for the professionals' wariness when it comes to audit selection and 'expressions of doubt' and its eminently possible that it is an urban myth. That said, the wariness persists...
Indeed, point noted. There may or may not be any rational basis for the professionals' wariness when it comes to audit selection and 'expressions of doubt' and its eminently possible that it is an urban myth. That said, the wariness persists...
guideanna -I entirely agree that calling you dishonest was way out of line. I think it breaches the guidelines of this forum and certainly breaches normal rules of etiquette.
However, on a financial forum it is likely that there'd be a few accountants. Perhaps it may have been more diplomatic to say something like " i'm unsure of the value of an accountant in this instance" , rather than "waste of time..".
But, even so, descriptions like dodgy and dishonest were OTT.
However, on a financial forum it is likely that there'd be a few accountants. Perhaps it may have been more diplomatic to say something like " i'm unsure of the value of an accountant in this instance" , rather than "waste of time..".
But, even so, descriptions like dodgy and dishonest were OTT.
Guideanna (and oldnick),
Let's just clarify the position:
The OP submitted his/her 2010 income tax return without really knowing what he/she was actually submitting.
The OP provides further information regarding his/her 2010 capital allowances claim.
A couple of posters point out that it's likely that the OP has incorrectly claimed capital allowances in relation to certain items. In other words, the OP is now aware that there's an issue with his/her 2010 income tax return.
The OP displays further ignorance of the relevant rules.
A poster points out the benefit of using a tax advisor in cases such as this.
The OP tells us all that accountants are a waste of money.
The OP didn't initially do it deliberately, but he/she is now aware that there's an issue and has done nothing to regularise the position.
The OP has not advised Revenue that there's an issue with his/her 2010 income tax return. It's a self assessment system. The onus is not on Revenue to identify errors in a taxpayer's return.
You both appear to be missing the point that the onus is on the OP to point out to Revenue that there's an issue with his/her capital allowances claim. Ours is a self assessment system. The OP is morally and legally obliged to submit his/her return correctly. If the OP now knows that the return is incorrect and does not amend the return, that is dishonest. It is utterly dishonest. And it's bizarre to be claiming that using an accountant is a waste of money while simultaneously making a complete dog's dinner of your own return.
Let's just clarify the position:
The OP submitted his/her 2010 income tax return without really knowing what he/she was actually submitting.
The OP provides further information regarding his/her 2010 capital allowances claim.
A couple of posters point out that it's likely that the OP has incorrectly claimed capital allowances in relation to certain items. In other words, the OP is now aware that there's an issue with his/her 2010 income tax return.
The OP displays further ignorance of the relevant rules.
A poster points out the benefit of using a tax advisor in cases such as this.
Thanks for your input but i'm only interested in my original query.
I'll be doing the form 12 myself next year too, no way i'd be paying some accountant when i'm fully capable of doing it myself. Waste of money...."in my opinion"!!
The OP tells us all that accountants are a waste of money.
The OP didn't initially do it deliberately, but he/she is now aware that there's an issue and has done nothing to regularise the position.
The OP has not advised Revenue that there's an issue with his/her 2010 income tax return. It's a self assessment system. The onus is not on Revenue to identify errors in a taxpayer's return.
You both appear to be missing the point that the onus is on the OP to point out to Revenue that there's an issue with his/her capital allowances claim. Ours is a self assessment system. The OP is morally and legally obliged to submit his/her return correctly. If the OP now knows that the return is incorrect and does not amend the return, that is dishonest. It is utterly dishonest. And it's bizarre to be claiming that using an accountant is a waste of money while simultaneously making a complete dog's dinner of your own return.
You can submit an incorrect return unknowingly. Having the best accountant in the world or the most expensive does not guarantee that your return will be correct. The OP has submitted her return to the best of her ability, and she has taken advice on herem revebye had a query and OP replied, where is the problem? This is so far off deliberately trying to deceive revenue that I don't get your point.
Incidentally revenue get things wrong all the time, and plenty of their own staff don't know their own rules. There is also such a thing as human error, which revenue will deal with appropriately where it is not deliberate.
Sorry Bronte, but you interpretation of events is incorrect.
The OP now knows that his/her 2010 capital allowances claim reflects items that are unlikely to qualify for capital allowances. The OP is therefore morally and legally obliged to amend the return. It is not sufficient to sit back and wait for Revenue to detect the errors. They may very well not detect the errors but that's not relevant. Not revising the return is wrong.