Foreign creditor may get a judgement against my ex

S

Snork Maiden

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Hi
(Probably posting this in the wrong forum but I am guessing that posters/responders here might have come across my issue as part of their issues with a dispute between separated joint mortgage/home owners).

I am no longer in a relationship with the person I bought my home with over ten years ago. I still live in the home and we both make mortgage repayments - albeit he is in arrears which I sub so that we dont go into arrears with the bank!

A 3rd party who claims my ex owes money to (personal debt not a financial institute) has requested a valuation of my home. I have refused on grounds that the house is my home (his asset) and was not used as any collateral to his alleged debt.

The 3rd party hired an estate agent to do what is being called a 'Drive by Valuation' and this valuation may now be used in a civil court abroad.....

The estate agent never entered the property but literally drove by the gate. Estate agent has no idea the number of rooms, condition, size, layout etc.

The house is a one-off single dwelling in a rural location that does not have similar properties to compare to and there has not been a house sold within 1-2kms in the last 5-6 years.

He has valued my home at a ridiculously high value and vaguely reference two other properties in the nearby vicinity approx 2-3 km's away. Neither of which I can find on daft/myhome etc.

I want to approach the estate agent to ascertain how he arrived at the valuation, however, before I do I want to know what rights I have to know the details of the properties he is comparing to my home....can I insist that he provides me with the details of the properties he compared them to or will he just tell me to 'get lost' as I didnt hire him and I am not his client.

Sorry for the long winded post but I am really upset by all this and the implications of having my home dragged through a foreign court with false valuations.

Thanks for your help.

Edit: I rang the Society for chartered surveyors but the wont give me answer over the phone I need to make a formal complaint, and I dont necessary want to do that if the estate agent is willing to provide me with the information I need to see if the properties do/do not compare to mine.
 
I think this a case of can't see the woods for the trees!

It doesn't matter what the valuation is. Honestly. Truly.

Your bigger problem is that you jointly own a property with another person who is incurring/ has incurred debt. It means that jointly held assets ( as in, it is not just your house, it is his also) can attract creditors. This is an asset that creditors of you or him can attach a judgment mortgage to, if they get a judgment against him.

I'm going to re-phrase this:

"the implications of having my home dragged through a foreign court with false valuations."

as this

"the implications of a foreign court granting a judgment against my co-owner which could be attached as a judgment mortgage on my home - albeit a jointly held asset with the other co-owner"

mf
 
You seem to be overly concerned in respect of an issue which will have no direct relevance to your interest in your PDH. I.e. the valuation of the property on behalf of a 3rd party!
As the property is jointly owned it is possible for a judgment to be obtained against 1 of the owners and registered against his/her interest in the property. However you mention that the case is being taken outside of Ireland. While it is possible to register foreign judgments against Irish properties this is not a simple matter and is likely to require an approval of the foreign judgment by an Irish Court.
The value of the property has no relevance whatsoever to this issue. It is immaterial as to what value an appointed estate agent puts on the property for the purposes of registering a judgment against that property. No foreign court can make a decision that directly effects your Irish property. Even in the event that a foreign judgment is obtained against your ex and registered against the property it will be virtually impossible to progress a sale of the property on foot of that judgment.
You state that while some payments are being made by your ex, you are meeting the bulk of the repayments. It is also unclear as to whether the property is in positive or negative equity. Either way it is important for you to maintain a record of payments made by you in order to ultimately establish your level of ownership in the property. You will be aware of the difficulties of establishing your ownership interest through reading other posts on this thread. Ultimately it will be important for you to establish your own interest in this property and ideally this should be done by means of an agreement with the co-owner. A dispute between the parties on this issue is resolvable but not without difficulties and expense.
The value put on the property by the estate agent should not be of any concern to you.
 
Thanks for your replies.

Couple of extra points raised that I should have mentioned....

  • According to my estimation the house is in negatively equity of approx 200 - 225k.
  • I have a record of payments/missed payments which my ex is aware of and not disputing.
  • I have an amicable relationship with my ex and we are not in dispute over the house. Our current arrangement suits us both for now and we have an agreement in place on how to address issues if either of our situations change in the future.
  • I am financially able to maintain the payments today and am happy to do so in order not to go into arrears.
The 'Drive by' Valuation over values the house by as much as €300k and as such brings it into the foreign court as an asset, whereby market valuation would mean that the house would not be considered at all, as it is in negative equity and the property would not even be under discussion.

I can see both your points and perhaps I am getting overly concerned with the 'Drive-by' valuation however, my concern is that the 3rd party is being vindictive and may have influence the estate agent and therefore, I want to know what rights I have to know how he/she calculated the valuation so that I (or even my ex) can counter argue and remove the house from the court proceedings entirely.
 
"so that I (or even my ex) can counter argue and remove the house from the court proceedings entirely."

You can't. It is part of a whole sorry mess.

mf
 
Well one sure way of getting a proper valuation is getting your own estate agent. It may cost money but if you were, ahem, thinking of selling and would consider using the estate aagents services they may do it for free.
 
elcato said:
Well one sure way of getting a proper valuation is getting your own estate agent. It may cost money but if you were, ahem, thinking of selling and would consider using the estate aagents services they may do it for free.
Click to expand...
No need for this in respect of the 3rd party claim it would be irrelevant as is the case being taken against him as far as you are concerned. You need to assess your own position re the negative equity on the property and how you can deal with this on the basis of a permanent solution.
 
Hi Snork

Let's look at what can go wrong based on the high valuation.

The creditor gets a judgement against your ex in the foreign country.
They register that judgement against your family home.
This will have effect until the property is in positive equity.
Let's say that you want to sell the house when it is worth €400k and the mortgage is €300k.
You keep your €50k share, your ex's share goes to his creditor. That seems fair enough to me.

Could the creditor get an order for possession based on the judgement mortgage? I think that the legal answer is no. But, even if it were possible, the court will not grant them the order.

Agreed that an individual creditor might be far more vindictive and aggressive than a lender. But the valuation is not the problem, it's the fact that your ex owes the creditor money.

Brendan
 
I am reading this differently, The Creditor would be aware of how far they can push this matter with you, as they, like you would also would have being given advice, and I doubt its much different to what you have received here.
My take on the matter is that they are trying to rattle you enough to have the matter settled if not with your ex, then by you.,with the treat of loosing your home. A drive by guess-timation could be carried out by myself on the way home on any house I pass, it means nothing in my opinion, yet for the agents fee of €250, they may see it as money well spent if they get the desired effect.
 
Everyone,

Thanks for all your words of advise and wisdom. It has given me food for thought.

I am waiting for the Estate agent to ring me back and will update if I get a response.

Just to say I do have an agreement with my ex regarding the property, mortgage payments (short & long term) NE and if our circumstances change in the future. We are not in conflict and are on good terms.

I just never guessed that something like this would happen.....
 
LS400 said:
My take on the matter is that they are trying to rattle you enough to have the matter settled if not with your ex, then by you.,with the treat of loosing your home.
Click to expand...
Yes. This is classic debt collection tactics. It is similar to a doorstep call to a married debtor when they know the debtor is out but the wife is in. Ignore any further correspondance with them.
 
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