Fitting Lights

I have two new lights to fit in the kitchen. On looking at the instructions a connection for the earth is mentioned, however, when I look the wires already connected to the existing fitting, there is only the live and neutral! The instructions state that the fitting MUST be earthed, but if there is no earth wire in the main wiring - what to do.

That said, one of the fittings comes an earth wire from the connector in the light to the metal bracket that is used to attach it to the ceiling, would this suffice? Or do I also need to attach an earth from the connector in the light to the connector on the mains wire?

one of the fittings comes an earth wire from the connector in the light to the metal bracket that is used to attach it to the ceiling, would this suffice?

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In a word, no.

Or do I also need to attach an earth from the connector in the light to the connector on the mains wire?

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That is what the statement in the instructions refers to

Seems to imply that an earth wire already exists.

Perhaps you will also find something useful here [broken link removed]

Seems to imply that an earth wire already exists.

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Implies that an earth wire should already exist.

Hi there. If the house was built or rewired in the last 20 years , there "should" be an earth wire there, somewhere.

With the fuse/breaker, controlling that circuit, removed or switched off, remove the screws holding on the existing fitting and search through the hole for an earth wire. It will be indicated by being green/yellow in colour.

Or else, if the wiring to the fitting is a grey "twin'n'earth", (three wires within one outer grey PVC insulation), check if there is an uninsulated third centre one. If so, this is your earth. Strip the wire back, and cover this core in gree/yellow insulating tape and use it.

If all the above amounts to no earth conductor being there, you should not fit a fitting which requires one.

If there is an earth wire in the ceiling connect the earth wire of the fitting to this with a connector.

If there is no earth wire in the ceiling don't worry just put some insulating tape over the earth wire of the fitting .
( this is to make sure it wont slip into live conector when you put the fitting up.)

It is my opinion and that of many others that ceiling light fittings are safer without an earth connected in domestic installations.

Roger

Hi Rogermure,

Will you please back up your opinion with technical fact before you advise viewers on issues which could put their lives and property at risk.

In the interest of safety, I think you should edit your above post first, and then give the technical reasons, supported by reference to professional bodies.

It is the first time that I have read a post on AAM which could potentially put life at risk.

Re: ...life-endangering posts?

What about one, then?

Tbh, I'd say the need for an earth connection on a standard ceiling-fixed light fitting is debateable, although I can't provide any technical references to support that... any bright 'sparks' out there? ...care to shed some light on the matter? :rollin
(sorry, it's just that Friday feeling...)

In many EU countries, the vast majority of your average household plugs, sockets, etc. are still of the old two-pin variety... ditto for the US.

Re: ...life-endangering posts?

The sole purpose of an earth conductor in any circuit is to limit the risk of electric shock, by means of allowing a fault current (conductor touching metal extraneous body) to make it's way back to earth by means of a lower resistance path than that which a biological body may allow. (eg: person touching metal body of fitting)

Although, not it's purpose, an earth fault on an earthed fitting, will more often than not, create a short-circuit (massive current flow) to earth, and hence blow/trip the fuse/breaker protecting that circuit cable.

The fact that other countries may not be to that standard yet, is irrelevant.

As an example, it is not obligatory to have a passenger side mirror on a vehicle in India. Does that make it debateable as to whether or not we should have one?

All car suppliers/manufacturers, no matter how prestigious, supply their vehicles to India, without a passenger side mirror. (saving tuppence).

Our electrical regulations are standards based, and to a standard which I personally find excellent. Again, if an electrical appliance has an earth terminal, the manufacturer, coupled with our CE standards have deemed tha it should be used.

Re: ...life-endangering posts?

I must agree you have a point but why do the regulations not insist on an earth leakage trip switch on lighting circuits. eliminate massive current to earth, lowers fire risk , and offers greater personal protection .

The 2 pin sockets on the Continent were also deemed acceptable and written into the Irish rules as the objective was to harmonise the European Regulations.

The wiring regulations do insist on earthwires at light fittings and switches. Westbound’s house may have been wired to the regulation of the time it was wired and it was not necessary to have an earth at the light position. He is not obliged to meet new regulations .

So Westbound is up a ladder with his light fitting
If he has no earthwire in the ceiling he or someone else will connect it as I have suggested
If he has an earthwire then all is fine.
He could get an electrician

The present regulations do not allow any person who is not an electrician to interfere with your electrical installation. They also insist that you have your wiring tested every three to five years and you appliances tested each year.

You don’t have to be an electrician to reply to his question and I feel the advice he has received is in the context of his Cavalier approach to electric’s quite reasonable.

Roger

Re: ...life-endangering posts?

Well for a start, the electrical regulations do not insist on an earth leakage switch anywhere on a domestic installation. They request that a Residual Current Device (RCD) is protecting your socket, immersion and shower circuits.

The reason for them not being on a lighting circuit, is to allow for the slight imbalances caused by some lighting fittings (flourescents etc), which may cause nuisance tripping. This is coupled with a fine balance approach, that being that there is more risk potential on an electric shower and many items that would be attached to sockets; eg a footspa.

The electrical regulations do not insist on testing every 3 to 5 years. They recommend testing every 5 to 10 years.

I cannot find any reference to the 2 pin sockets you mention, unless it is the shaver sockets which are isolated by a 1:1 transformer.

Again, I stand by my recommendation that Westbound should not connect an item which is recommended to be earthed, to an unearthed supply.

A qualified electrician would/should not fit Westbounds fitting without clarifying/installing an earth, so why should Westbound?

Cars drive on bald tyres, until you need to stop.