Finance Bill - Interesting Pensions Changes

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mtk

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yes this AMRF originally was designed to save pensioners from themselves i.e. buying that porsche ! and running out of cash.
In fact as i understand it a far more common phenomenon is pensioners excessively(?) limiting withdrawals for fear of running out .
Makes sense to get rid of it.
 

Dave Vanian

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yes this AMRF originally was designed to save pensioners from themselves i.e. buying that porsche ! and running out of cash.
In fact as i understand it a far more common phenomenon is pensioners excessively(?) limiting withdrawals for fear of running out .
Makes sense to get rid of it.

That thinking always baffled me. "You've saved up a pension fund prudently for perhaps 40 years. You've managed your finances for maybe 45 years. But apparently now you're liable to lose the run of yourself and blow it all..."

Definitely a sensible decision at last.
 

Conan

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When Charlie McCreevy introduced AMRFs he said that they were designed to prevent DC pensioners spending it all (from the ARF) immediately. But €63,800 was more of a nuisance than of any real benefit. Well rid of.
 

Steven Barrett

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That was as a result of lobbying from fund managers who feared that retirees would take their money out of their grasp and they would lose out.

Trying to explain the concept of the AMRF was always a difficult one so I'm delighted it's gone. It makes my job easier.
 

phoenix53

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"The Approved Retirement Fund (ARF) option is being made available for ‘death in service’ scenarios in relation to company pension schemes, thus enabling the bereaved to avoid unwanted annuities with the excess in a ‘four times salary’ calculation"

Hi. Could someone explain what this means please? Does it refer to defined benefit schemes if you die when in service?
 

Baby boomer

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With the 15 year rule gone, it is now possible to take a transfer value from a deferred occupational pension into a PRSA. If one were to do that (leaving aside the question as to whether it's a good idea or not) is 60 the earliest age at which the PRSA can start to be drawn down?
 

Hilda2021

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Will this have any effect on accessing your pension early from 50 onwards, has anything changed for that please?
 

Dave Vanian

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"The Approved Retirement Fund (ARF) option is being made available for ‘death in service’ scenarios in relation to company pension schemes, thus enabling the bereaved to avoid unwanted annuities with the excess in a ‘four times salary’ calculation"

Hi. Could someone explain what this means please? Does it refer to defined benefit schemes if you die when in service?

In brief, maximum lump sum a pension scheme member's estate can receive in the event of death in service is 4 years' salary. Up to now, any excess would have to be used to buy an annuity for the spouse or dependent. Now any excess over 4 x salary can be invested in an ARF.
 

Dave Vanian

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With the 15 year rule gone, it is now possible to take a transfer value from a deferred occupational pension into a PRSA. If one were to do that (leaving aside the question as to whether it's a good idea or not) is 60 the earliest age at which the PRSA can start to be drawn down?

No it's 50 assuming that the person is no longer in the employment.
 
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Steven Barrett

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With the 15 year rule gone, it is now possible to take a transfer value from a deferred occupational pension into a PRSA. If one were to do that (leaving aside the question as to whether it's a good idea or not) is 60 the earliest age at which the PRSA can start to be drawn down?
You have to be aware that PRSA's largely follow the rules of occupational and person pensions.

If you have a transfer value from an occupational pension or were in an employer provided PRSA (even if your employer didn't contribute), you can access the value of the PRSA from age 50.

But, if your PRSA is from non pensionable income or you went off and set up your own PRSA outside the one offered from your employer (this does not include PRSA AVC's which are linked to your occupational pension scheme), you have to wait to age 60 to access the fund.

I know PRSAs were marketed as the pension you can bring with you from job to job but it's certainly not a 1,000 songs in your pocket. :)

Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 

Dave Vanian

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If you have a transfer value from an occupational pension or were in an employer provided PRSA (even if your employer didn't contribute), you can access the value of the PRSA from age 50.

I see a few new twists - apparently early retirement from a PRSA re PAYE employment doesn't require you to completely sever all ties with the employer; just cease the employment. I can see that appealing to company directors in certain circumstances.

The removal of the 15 year rule on transfers from Occupational Schemes will probably make PRSAs more attractive for self-administered arrangements post-IORPS but the lower limits on contributions might weigh against that.
 

Steven Barrett

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I see a few new twists - apparently early retirement from a PRSA re PAYE employment doesn't require you to completely sever all ties with the employer; just cease the employment. I can see that appealing to company directors in certain circumstances.

The removal of the 15 year rule on transfers from Occupational Schemes will probably make PRSAs more attractive for self-administered arrangements post-IORPS but the lower limits on contributions might weigh against that.
The Bob is going to be done away with soon enough so they had to remove the 15 year rule for PRSAs. But they haven't removed the cert of comparison, so it'll cost you €1,200 to transfer from an occupational pension to a PRSA. Using PRSA's as the main pension for those not in occupational pensions is only going to result in higher charges for policyholders.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 

phoenix53

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In brief, maximum lump sum a pension scheme member's estate can receive in the event of death in service is 4 years' salary. Up to now, any excess would have to be used to buy an annuity for the spouse or dependent. Now any excess over 4 x salary can be invested in an ARF.
Thank you.
 

Jim Stafford

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s that explicit because previously, other than the 4%, the capital couldn’t be accessed until age 75 or €12,700 of guaranteed income was obtained? Or is it derived from the relevant case law on the basis that BM may not have had an AMRF so it was never considered?

I have never had to tease out with the Official Assignee the reasons why he does not attack the AMRF. He might want to just avoid a court challenge that the Debtor could successfully argue that the OAP would not be sufficient to pay Reasonable Living Expenses at the age of 75.

Jim Stafford
 
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