Well said. I agree with you 100%.I refuse to play this game - as I said, they 'sowed the wind' - and I refuse to 'reap the whirlwind' to prop up them up in government.
Of course we will all have to take (even more) pain to get out of this mess - I hope that the people have enough cop-on to ensure that this only happens after we have had an election - so that those governing us have sought a mandate for radical change, and have been elected on that basis. And with any luck FF will be consigned to the opposition benches, or even better -to the dustbin of history.
And with any luck FF will be consigned to the opposition benches, or even better -to the dustbin of history.
I really wish posters who say "WE deserve what WE are getting,WE elected these gangsters" would cease saying it..
Some of us DONT deserve what we are getting,and many of us DIDNT elect the present government..
Perhaps it would be fairer to say that those who voted for FF deserve it ,(though even thats a bit harsh) although I dont think in fairness even they could foresee the havoc their party would create..
.....So, we all decided that we wanted the gangsters to stay in power, because we believed that if we changed them the boom would be over. That's the reality.
I didn't vote for them either, but I got them, that's democracy. The fact is that three quarters of the voters chose them; the ones who voted for them and the ones who decided not to vote and to therefore allow the status uo to prevail.You have got to remember that 60% of those who voted did not vote for FF.
The turnout figures always misrepresent the 'could' turnout figure. Many people are either away from home or on holiday, or even in hospital, on polling day; also there are those who appear on the register but are deceased, doubly registered or have moved from a given constituency.We tend to forget the non-voting public when we consider this issue, but somebody who doesn't use their vote to remove a bad government is as deserving of what we have got as somebody who voted for them. The rest of us have to abide by the decision of the majority.
I blame Bertie for the mess we are in. He was in charge when the vested interests took over the country (Developers, bankers, unions).......This is where I blame Bertie, he was a populist and gave people what they wanted, not what they needed.
For those who don’t think we are all to blame, ask yourself if you thought interest rate cuts were a bad idea (and told your local politician so), did you argue against pay increases well ahead of the rate of inflation in the public sector and many parts of the private sector (did anyone who got benchmarking ask if the state could afford it?).
Those who did buy property in the last few years, why did you do it; you knew that we were in a bubble so why not rent? If you didn’t know we were in a bubble and prices were going to drop you are a fool.
Spending on houses, spending on cars, spending on holidays, TVs, etc, they were nearly all paid for by cheap credit or unsustainable pay increases. The banks gave out money like there was no tomorrow but we, as a society, took it. There were two parties in the transaction. We are all to blame.
BTW, does anyone seriously think that Labour or FG (both of whom pushed for more spending over the last few years, not less) would have behaved in a way that was more fiscally responsible (in any meaningful way)?
Labour has protested against the few paltry cuts that this government have made. Their counter proposal would have saved up to €100 million; worthless in the current context. Like the fat cat union leaders they balked when hard decisions had to be made.
I didn’t get in over my head either; I run a second hand car, I have no debt other than my mortgage and I have never paid interest on my credit card and I sold my rental property 16 months ago (because I saw the crash coming).Speak for yourself, there are many drowning in debt, but there also many who didn't get in 'over their head'.
So as long as it’s not FF you are happy? Do you think a government with the Marxist/communist /isolationist policies of SF would be better?BTW, does anyone seriously think that Labour or FG (both of whom pushed for more spending over the last few years, not less) would have behaved in a way that was more fiscally responsible (in any meaningful way)?
This misses the point, its not what FG etc would have done -its what FF did and didn't do. In my book , actions must have consequences - FF must pay the price for virtually bankrupting this country.
As a citizen of this country I have rights but I also have responsibilities. These include accepting that I have to play my part in fixing the state’s finances. I, like most of us, have benefited from the boom; I use better roads and can get home from work faster than I could ten years ago, my son who has special needs gets the extra help he needs in school, a close relative who has aggressive cancer can access expensive treatments that would not have been available without the boom. The fact is that now there will be higher taxes, my son will lose his classroom assistant and close friends will lose their jobs. That’s just the way it is and the way it has to be. Fairness doesn’t come into it. The answer to “I didn’t cause this” is “so what”; you’re a citizen of this country and you have to put your shoulder to the wheel just like everyone else. If your shoulder is at the wheel then stop moaning and push harder.So, please - feel free to use 'we' when speaking about yourself, or others who have told you that they are of like mind - but refrain from sweeping generalisations such as 'we are all to blame'. You may be, but I'm not!!
..
Some of us DONT deserve what we are getting,and many of us DIDNT elect the present government..
I blame Bertie for the mess we are in. He was in charge when the vested interests took over the country (Developers, bankers, unions).
FF have a mandate from the people.
Who then gave planning permission for houses out it the backs of the beyonds?
Who took out 100% mortgages to buy badly built housing in these locations?
Maybe it was the viewing audience of "House hunters", "House Hunters in the Sun" etc.
People buying 2nd homes out in Spain, Potugal and Bulgaria.
I surpose the Bertie was to blame for this as well. Not individual greed or stupidity.
People were swept away in a borrowing frenzy. People bought into the Celtic Tiger Hype.
....So as long as it’s not FF you are happy? Do you think a government with the Marxist/communist /isolationist policies of SF would be better?
Of course FF should pay for what they have done and of course it matters what FG/Labour would have done because it tells us what they will do.
As a citizen of this country I have rights but I also have responsibilities. These include accepting that I have to play my part in fixing the state’s finances. I, like most of us, have benefited from the boom; I use better roads and can get home from work faster than I could ten years ago, my son who has special needs gets the extra help he needs in school, a close relative who has aggressive cancer can access expensive treatments that would not have been available without the boom. The fact is that now there will be higher taxes, my son will lose his classroom assistant and close friends will lose their jobs. That’s just the way it is and the way it has to be. Fairness doesn’t come into it. The answer to “I didn’t cause this” is “so what”; you’re a citizen of this country and you have to put your shoulder to the wheel just like everyone else. If your shoulder is at the wheel then stop moaning and push harder.
As for the fat cats... well Dr. AJF O’Reilly has lost hundreds of millions in the last few months. So have Mr. Quinn, Dermot Desmond etc. Property developers have, at the very least, lost most of their net worth. One at least has lost his life. I have absolutely no sympathy for the golden circle but the idea that they have not been effected by what’s happened is ridiculous.
I agree with all of that.I am not an 'anyone but' FF person. I believe SF might be ready to govern, in 2 or 3.....decades...maybe. Labour deserve to stay in opposition as long as they are 'prisoners' of an outdated ideology, and more importantly - in trawl to the union movement. FG have an historic opportunity to make a real breakthrough, with a mandate for real change..however, the signs are worrying, it looks like Kenny et al are trying to pull a FF type stroke i.e. oppose everything, talk tough - but ultimately roll over to vested interest groups in an attempt* to 'offend' no one.* I hope that they avoid this trap, and step-up to the plate.*I am prepared to shoulder my fair share of the burden - reluctantly - because it should never have come to this.Regarding good roads, improved medical care etc....maybe I have lived in a parallel universe for the last decade - where infrastructure projects were typically delivered late, and significantly over budget, where despite massive extra spending, the health service managed to struggle to deliver even basic services, and where people died needlessly, through misdiagnosis, MRSA etc.*I have no particular axe to grind with O'Reilly and the other millon/bllionaires - but* I can't say I'm sorry for those that are down to their last few hundred million. And that those that broke the law should be punished.*Radical reform of almost every facet of our economy and society is required - education,HSE, other public/civil service bodies* - power generation, planning; private sector organisations should not be immune - banking,professional services etc need to be regulated effectively - for the public good.*I will not quitely bend to the government's will - I am angry, but this does not mean* I am opting out. I believe it is reasonable to want to see brave and tough decisions made to position this country for recovery - and that those who were the primary authors of this disaster should pay the price.... soon...
They do it because that's what gets you elected and into power in Ireland. Doing "the right thing" doesn't wash here, ask Alan Dukes.FG have an historic opportunity to make a real breakthrough, with a mandate for real change..however, the signs are worrying, it looks like Kenny et al are trying to pull a FF type stroke i.e. oppose everything, talk tough - but ultimately roll over to vested interest groups in an attempt to 'offend' no one. I hope that they avoid this trap, and step-up to the plate.
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