Faulty Windows - Management Company or Developer?

Hi

The management company (or more accurately the agents) of my apartment block claim that cracks that have developed in my windows are my responsibility as they are not accidental - but to do with incorrect glass being used at the time of build - 4 years ago. If I had broken them accidently they would have been able to claim under block insurance.

My question is - how can the management company cover for accidental damage of the glass (which according to my leasehold is my property), but then say that failure of the glass is my responsibility.. surely a party cannot insure something unless that party has an interest/responsibility in the item they are insuring? And therefore that party should also have an interest/responsibility in repairing that item should it fail to perform?

Is it not a sinking fund issue?

It all depends on what your lease says. However, in most Multi Unit Developments the windows fall within the scope and responsibility of the Management Company. For that reason they are covered under the block insurance policy. Insurance will not cover defects in design, compliance with building regulations, manufacturing, materials or fitting etc.. This is probably what your management company meant when saying they were not covered by insurance. However, if as you say the wrong glass has been fitted, they would have a responsibility to rectify it (if it's causing a problem). Is this just your unit or widespread?
If I was you I would write to them, set out the problem and ask them to inspect. It could be a sinking fund issue, but most developments have none, or if they do, the money has been used to subsidise shortfalls from non paying owners and only exists on paper. It's also very early to be dipping into a sinking fund. Are there guarantees on the window units? Is your builder still trading? May be worth asking the management company to follow both these avenues.

Ciao massimo.

Could you give us a little more detail on this (circumstance and symptoms, not names)?
I have never heard of cracks developing in windows because the wrong glass has been fitted.

If its a specification matter it goes straight back to the architect and supplier, but I fail to see how this claim is supportable.
It may be a manufacturer's issue, where the designer specified correctly and the supplier brought them to site and/or fitted them in good faith.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.

Thanks for replys.

Apparently, the glass has cracked due to heat expansion.

Very large pains of glass - top floor - exposed with no shade - south facing. The glass is specified the same as other glass in the development - but the windows are twice the size - and due to the exposure to sunlight are open to considerably more stress than the other windows in the development. I have been told the problem is not unique and a number of apartment developments built in recent years have same problem.

The leasehold states that owners are responsible for glass - but the management company insures the glass.

There is a sinking fund healthy and intact.

Is it one or multiple units affected? Hard to justify a sinking fund expense for just one unit if it's of no benefit to the general development.

Given the average excess for a claim on block insurance is in the region of €1k these days, I'm not sure how it's anything that would be covered by the policy or would be worth claiming for with that excess. Surely your claim is with the builder?

This bears repeating.

If its a specification matter it goes straight back to the architect and supplier - I think you may have a claim, but it could be difficult to prove
It may ALSO be a manufacturer's issue, where the designer may have specified correctly and the supplier brought them to site and/or fitted them in good faith.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.

Hi Onq

Thanks for your reply - and I agree with you.. but I have no legal contract with the architect or glass company.

Is this not similar to Sale of Goods Act? You bring it back to the shop - not the manufacturer. The confusion is who is ultimate "owner" of the problem - management company or developer or me?

I believe the management company can only insure the windows BECAUSE they have "insurable interest" in the windows - no? I was not able to insure them as it is part of the fabric of the building and therefore I only have interest in them through my stakeholding in the management company... and therefore I have as much legal ownership/responsibility to my neighbours windows as my own - except of course the individual has to take responsibilty of the care and maintenance of the glass on behalf of the management company - as access to maintain and care for them is restricted by the individuals internal ownership of the property.

Shesells raises an interesting point about excess on policy.. :

If the manegment company agrees a high excess - then that is to keep the costs of running low (which all owners benefit from), and the high excess should then be "self-insured" by the management company - ie the party who has legal interest in the glass (AKA us the collective owners) - not by the individual owner. This is probably a discussion for another thread!

So - who do I focus my attentions on? Management Company? Developer? Glass Company? Homebond? Architect?

I had a client who was having issues with large panes of glass that cracked and literally 'exploded' (didn't shatter the window though, if that makes sense) and this was happenign to all sun-facing windows and costing €10k each to replace. They went to the producer and i believe it was somethign to do with too much of a certain ingredient in the glass that was making them do this. Producer agreed to replace the windows.

Found this link, might be applicable? http://napierblakeley.info/maintenance/the-shattering-truth-about-glass/

I don't think you can compare a building and a laptop computer. For one thing, the laptop usually isn't made by dozens of sub-contractors each with their own liabilities and insurance.
Maybe contact the manufacturer of the window panes and find out if it's a common problem and how much a solution would cost?

Hi Massimo

I was wondering if you ever got anywhere with this? I've had a similar problem to you on 2 occasions. The first was 2 years ago, when a window (south facing) shattered spontaneously (I found an article entitled "Toughened glass: A wonderful material, but with an “Achilles heel”" on the web that has a very similar image to what it looked like. I can't post url's on this site yet, as I'm a newbie.). It happened on a frosty clear January day and when the sun hit the window it seemed to heat up quickly. There was a blind that was pulled on the window which could have trapped the heat. That time, when we called the manufacturer of the window they said they'd never heard of anything like that ever happen. We ended up paying through our house insurance.

The 2nd time happened just this weekend in the window upstairs, directly above the window that had shattered before. Whilst it didn't shatter like the first, a crack formed from the bottom middle and split both ways in a kind of a y shape. It was a similar kind of day - cold and clear when the sun hit the window. We had the blind pulled as well, as one of the kids was having a nap in the room at the time, and there was a build up of heat behind it when I opened it. Sounds like a similar problem to yours and just wondering if you managed to get anywhere with it?

Flossie - that article was interesting that you posted and it certainly looks like that was the problem with our first window shattering. I'm wondering in the case of your client was it just good will on the producers part that they replaced the windows?

Thanks

massimo said:

Hi Onq

Thanks for your reply - and I agree with you.. but I have no legal contract with the architect or glass company.

Is this not similar to Sale of Goods Act? You bring it back to the shop - not the manufacturer. The confusion is who is ultimate "owner" of the problem - management company or developer or me?

I believe the management company can only insure the windows BECAUSE they have "insurable interest" in the windows - no? I was not able to insure them as it is part of the fabric of the building and therefore I only have interest in them through my stakeholding in the management company... and therefore I have as much legal ownership/responsibility to my neighbours windows as my own - except of course the individual has to take responsibilty of the care and maintenance of the glass on behalf of the management company - as access to maintain and care for them is restricted by the individuals internal ownership of the property.

Shesells raises an interesting point about excess on policy.. :

If the manegment company agrees a high excess - then that is to keep the costs of running low (which all owners benefit from), and the high excess should then be "self-insured" by the management company - ie the party who has legal interest in the glass (AKA us the collective owners) - not by the individual owner. This is probably a discussion for another thread!

So - who do I focus my attentions on? Management Company? Developer? Glass Company? Homebond? Architect?

Click to expand...

Hi Massimo,

Sorry I missed this follow up before now.
A solicitor will tell you to sue everybody - join them all to the action.

Unfortunately where this is a limited issue within the development the De Minimis rule may kick in - the law does not concern itself with trifles.
Architects can be sued in negligence and you may have two contracts which brings the whole "fitness for purpose" thing live.

Look at the details of the building and purchase contracts and see if you have claim against contractor or developer.
A supplier domestic to the main contractor means you have no direct contract - I understand this is the case.

You have to sue the main contractor who sues the supplier who may say he supplied what was asked.
This then goes back to the person who specified the glazing - which may be the architect.


ONQ.

[broken link removed]

All advice on AAM is remote from the situation and cannot be relied upon as a defence or support - in and of itself - should legal action be taken.
Competent legal and building professionals should be asked to advise in Real Life with rights to inspect and issue reports on the matter at hand.