Health Insurance Fair Deal Scheme - Bank accounts in joint name with son

N

NY_Resident

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Hi guys

We are looking at Fair Deal Scheme for my Dad. He has substantial cash savings in a number of bank accounts and I am a joint name on each of those accounts. We set this up a few years ago purely for convenience but I am not the beneficial owner of these funds on his passing (the funds are to be distributed per his will). A family friend has suggested that because these accounts are held in joint names, his contribution to FDS is substantially reduced. I am struggling to understand this as clearly a father/son relationship does not meet the definition of a “couple” under the Act. Has anybody any experience in this regard?

Thanks
 
Legally any cash held in the bank account is half yours.

There are tax consequences depending on what cash or other gifts you have received from your father to date.
 
Thx Horseman — I got tax advice at the time I became a joint name on the accounts. As I don’t have a “beneficial interest”, there are were no CAT obligations. In effect, I am holding a portion of the assets in trust for future beneficiaries. I am clear on this part. The question I have solely relates to how these assets are counted for Fair Deal purposes.
 
The Horseman said:
Legally any cash held in the bank account is half yours.
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Not necessarily. It can be quite a complex area, and there have been a number of court challenges on inheritance issues.
It sounds like the OP is just an agent on the account, so would result in a trust on the passing of the father.
Adding joint names to accounts is something people do without proper consideration for the resulting legal status.
 
And also, the account mandates are clear that proceeds are to be distributed per my Dads will. Which i believe leaves us in a good place relative to case law.
 
NY_Resident said:
Thx Horseman — I got tax advice at the time I became a joint name on the accounts. As I don’t have a “beneficial interest”, there are were no CAT obligations. In effect, I am holding a portion of the assets in trust for future beneficiaries. I am clear on this part. The question I have solely relates to how these assets are counted for Fair Deal purposes.
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You never mentioned that so my post was based solely on the details you provided.
 
For the Fair Deal scheme, they look at any assets that were transferred out in the 5 years (I think). So regardless of whether they are in your name or not, it would probably be caught under that term.
 
Yep SBarrett — correct about the 5 year look back. But my name was added about 7 years ago, so we are beyond that point.
 
NY_Resident said:
We set this up a few years ago purely for convenience but I am not the beneficial owner of these funds on his passing (the funds are to be distributed per his will). A family friend has suggested that because these accounts are held in joint names, his contribution to FDS is substantially reduced.
Click to expand...

Hi NY,

If your Dad was to avail of Fair Deal having claimed only half the savings were his, when he passes the HSE will look for a schedule of his assets, usually the Inland Revenue Affidavit (CA24) which lists all assets a person owned at time of death, this is to ensure that all assets were properly declared when applying for Fair Deal.

Would it not be clear from the CA24 that your Dad was the beneficial owner of all the funds in these accounts ?

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Have a look at the 2 notes on the bottom of page 6 on the Fair Deal Application Form.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/application-form-nhss1.pdf
 
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