Fair Deal/Nursing Homes Fair Deal Scheme and NTPF

[Rebecca1]

Good afternoon,

Both my parents were in care homes with dementia and paying close to the NTPF cap for their care homes. My mum sadly died and my Dad has now been assessed for the Fair Deal scheme at over 2,000 pw - which is more than the NTPF cap. The care home have written to us and said they received notification from the Fair Deal Office that the approved NTPF funding provision for my Dad was no longer eligible. Could someone please explain what this means in practice?

My Dad has been in the care home for 15 months and has been part of the fair deal scheme throughout. Once their house value comes out of the calculation, we anticipate his weekly contribution will be around 800pw (well under the NTPF cost).

We have a meeting with the care home next week to discuss 'contract of care and rates' and would just like to be aware of what this means? He is really happy where he is and we don't want to move him.

We assume he is still part of the fair deal scheme and that in c2 years he will pay the lower amount, but is this wrong? It would seem very unfair for him to be ineligible purely and simply because my Mum died.

Many thanks for any information.

Kind regards,

Rebecca

 

[Des Pondent]

The NTPF agree the price that individual nursing homes charge Fair Deal patients. If you are approved for F/D and your assessed amount is below this figure, you pay your assessed amount and the HSE pays the balance.

As a couple your parents each owned and were assessed on 50% of their house, other assets and income. As your mum has now passed, as far as the HSE is concerned anyway, your dad now owns and will be assessed on 100% of the house (7.5%), any other assets (7.5%), and income (80%).

If they as a couple were close to the cap as you have said, it is easy to see how your dad on his own would now exceed it.

It would certainly be to your dad’s advantage to remain a F/D client. The nursing home would prefer it if he was a private client. I think I would be contacting the F/D people to discuss options and not be depending on the nursing home for information.

 

[Rebecca1]

Thanks very much Des.

You're right, we would definitely want Dad to remain a F/D client if possible and I wrote to them today to ask for clarification. We don't mind paying the higher amount as we feel it would be fair to do so. But if Dad is 'removed' from the F/D scheme, then I don't know whether he can get back in at some point in the future.

The situation isn't helped by the fact that we sold their house (after they both had the F/D scheme in place). In theory, the proceeds would be capped after three years, but if it transpires that they do deem Dad ineligible and he is removed from the scheme, then presumably if we end up having to reapply for the F/D scheme in future the 'house proceeds' will be cash and could run down to zero.

I shall report back when I get further updates.

 

[Des Pondent]

I think it’s fair for your dad to be assessed after the change in circumstances, he will end up paying more, in this case the full cost of care for a time anyway, but that's the way F/D works, you pay based on what you have. I would still expect him to be a F/D client though.

The house was sold on the understanding that the proceeds of the sale would qualify for the 3 year cap. I would still expect the house sale proceeds to be disregarded in the financial assessment when his first 3 years are up and would certainly appeal if the house sale proceeds were assessed at that time.

Funds will drop quickly if the HSE is not contributing anything at this time. Do you know that you can apply to be reassessed every year on your dad’s much lower bank balance, it would be very beneficial in this case. It would also bring him back into benefit sooner.

 

[ClubMan]

The situation isn't helped by the fact that we sold their house (after they both had the F/D scheme in place). In theory, the proceeds would be capped after three years

It's not "in theory" - it's a clearly stated part of the scheme:

3-year cap on homes, farms and businesses

Read advice on the Fair Deal 3-year cap and how it applies to farm and business owners applying for nursing home support

www2.hse.ie

3-year cap on homes, farms and businesses​

The 3-year cap is a limit on how much you pay towards nursing home care as part of the Fair Deal scheme.
It's based on the value of certain assets you may have.
These assets can include:

• your home
• proceeds from the sale of your home
• your farm or business

 

[Rebecca1]

Thanks Clubman. I hope you're right!

The reason I said 'in theory' is that if my Dad is deemed ineligible for the fair deal, does this mean he will no longer be a F/D client - in which case even if he were to reapply in the future, we would have to hope that he picked up where he left off (and that the house assets were capped).

Our big unknown (and neither the F/D nor the Nursing Home are answering the question yet), is whether someone in my Dad's situation - who goes from being a F/D client and under the cap, to becoming a widower and going over the cap, is removed from the F/D scheme or not?