T
True Blue
Guest
Is the euro and the notion of one currency for europe flawed?
Title edited by RainyDay
Title edited by RainyDay
A
<A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s
Guest
The € is not a notion - it's a reality.
Surely you might just as well say is the concept of a single currency for all 50 states of the US a flawed concept?
Maybe you could set out your own arguments on the topic and allow others to respond?
Surely you might just as well say is the concept of a single currency for all 50 states of the US a flawed concept?
Maybe you could set out your own arguments on the topic and allow others to respond?
D
daltonr
Guest
True Blue,
Do you know of anything that's perfect?
It's not a question of whether there are flaws/weaknesses.
It's a question of whether the benefits of a single currency
out weigh the drawbacks (i.e. Losing control over interest rates, the ability to have the value of our currency fluctuate based specifically on how our economy is doing and not some overall view of the Eurozone as a whole).
I have no strong opinion one way or the other on that, I don't think anyone really knows for sure yet.
-Rd
Do you know of anything that's perfect?
It's not a question of whether there are flaws/weaknesses.
It's a question of whether the benefits of a single currency
out weigh the drawbacks (i.e. Losing control over interest rates, the ability to have the value of our currency fluctuate based specifically on how our economy is doing and not some overall view of the Eurozone as a whole).
I have no strong opinion one way or the other on that, I don't think anyone really knows for sure yet.
-Rd
T
True Blue
Guest
Here’s why I think the Euro is going to fail and fail miserable it will.
1. Interest rates.
No country in the Eurozone has complete control of their interest rates. This is bad for inflation, competitiveness and hence job creation. What will the outcome be if the ECB starts hiking up the interest rates? Surely this would not benefit all countries.
2. Socialism.
The powers to be in the Eurozone (France and Germany) are socialist states with power hungry unions, inflated costs of living and suffocating red tape and bureaucracy. The French and German’s have already broken their promises before (with deficits) and they’ll do it again. The French are extremely hell bent on their own interests and no one else’s unless of course it benefits them. For instance, the French anti-war stance had nothing to do with ‘saving’ Iraqi people but maintaining the status quote when it came to their oil, business and arms contracts with Sadam. If the Euro begins to flounder they’ll twist the rules to suit themselves. For example, when Ireland was voting the second time around for the nice treated the Germans and French were drawing up final drafts to chuck us out if we had refused the second time. Another example would be eastern European states supporting the US in the Iraqi war. They were told, publicly and in no uncertain terms, that their support for the US was a bad thing and could see them excluded from membership. If that’s not bullying I don’t know what is. This sort of behaviour will lead to a ‘four legs good, two legs bad’ syndrome (Animal farm George Orwell?).
3. We are not that important!
Contrary to popular opinion us Irish are, …er, not that important. We are a small country with a population tipping 4 million. Look, I am proud to be Irish and we have achieved some great things but I think it’s gone to our heads. We are how in the presidency of the EU. Providing we do what the big boys tell us to do we’ll be fine. Step out of line and feel the crack of the whip. This government knows it can’t make any real changes/decisons unless bureaucrats, ‘officials’ and vested interests give the go ahead. This means that the presidency is nothing but a puppet. Those in real control are unaccountable which will lead to mistakes being made and rampant corruption – needless to say not good for business.
4. Economy:
Our economy is more in tune with the British and American economies and not the Europeans.
In relation to some points made by other posters:
‘Surely you might just as well say is the concept of a single currency for all 50 states of the US a flawed concept?’
-America has a common history and culture much more intwined than EU states. Their currency has worked the jury is still out on ours.
‘Do you know of anything that's perfect?’
-I’m perfect! No, I’m only joking. To answer your question, I know of nothing that’s perfect but I know that the euro is deeply flawed. Or to be more precise it’s the actual eurozone countries that are flawed.
1. Interest rates.
No country in the Eurozone has complete control of their interest rates. This is bad for inflation, competitiveness and hence job creation. What will the outcome be if the ECB starts hiking up the interest rates? Surely this would not benefit all countries.
2. Socialism.
The powers to be in the Eurozone (France and Germany) are socialist states with power hungry unions, inflated costs of living and suffocating red tape and bureaucracy. The French and German’s have already broken their promises before (with deficits) and they’ll do it again. The French are extremely hell bent on their own interests and no one else’s unless of course it benefits them. For instance, the French anti-war stance had nothing to do with ‘saving’ Iraqi people but maintaining the status quote when it came to their oil, business and arms contracts with Sadam. If the Euro begins to flounder they’ll twist the rules to suit themselves. For example, when Ireland was voting the second time around for the nice treated the Germans and French were drawing up final drafts to chuck us out if we had refused the second time. Another example would be eastern European states supporting the US in the Iraqi war. They were told, publicly and in no uncertain terms, that their support for the US was a bad thing and could see them excluded from membership. If that’s not bullying I don’t know what is. This sort of behaviour will lead to a ‘four legs good, two legs bad’ syndrome (Animal farm George Orwell?).
3. We are not that important!
Contrary to popular opinion us Irish are, …er, not that important. We are a small country with a population tipping 4 million. Look, I am proud to be Irish and we have achieved some great things but I think it’s gone to our heads. We are how in the presidency of the EU. Providing we do what the big boys tell us to do we’ll be fine. Step out of line and feel the crack of the whip. This government knows it can’t make any real changes/decisons unless bureaucrats, ‘officials’ and vested interests give the go ahead. This means that the presidency is nothing but a puppet. Those in real control are unaccountable which will lead to mistakes being made and rampant corruption – needless to say not good for business.
4. Economy:
Our economy is more in tune with the British and American economies and not the Europeans.
In relation to some points made by other posters:
‘Surely you might just as well say is the concept of a single currency for all 50 states of the US a flawed concept?’
-America has a common history and culture much more intwined than EU states. Their currency has worked the jury is still out on ours.
‘Do you know of anything that's perfect?’
-I’m perfect! No, I’m only joking. To answer your question, I know of nothing that’s perfect but I know that the euro is deeply flawed. Or to be more precise it’s the actual eurozone countries that are flawed.
A
<A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s
Guest
I thought that most of the European national Governments were centre right these days?
How so?
C
Contango10
Guest
Note that a weak euro can be GOOD for the eurozone economy.
The current very strong euro against the dollar will hurt euro-based exporters.
Contango10
The current very strong euro against the dollar will hurt euro-based exporters.
Contango10
T
Tommy
Guest
Its not 24 hours since someone on these pages complained bitterly that prices are much higher here than in Germany :eek
N
newkie
Guest
a US perspective
Well I think Contango10 mentioned an interesting point. What I keep seeing reading Irish e-news is worry about the raising euro making it too expensive for the US to do business in Ireland. Its a funny situation, on one hand you should wish for the Euro to climb but unfortunately we're in this pickle where the US has all this influence making the raise undesirable for the economy. So today [broken link removed] the ECB is looking at curbing this trend and calling these wild fluctuations "unwelcome".
As a US outsider I can certainly understand the economics of why the raise is undesirable. I'm over here wishing the dollar will rise so I can move USD over to Euro (and after that feck the dollar). But I don't know what to do, I think if I wait I'll be screwed. But ultimately, after this administration of the next the dollar has to recover... its an inevitability that the US will recover unless we are to believe that the US is really at a cusp of going downhill (and with all the recent drama I can see how people might take that perspective although they are probably fooling themselves).
Since we sold our house and decided to move I've seen the rate go from 1.17 to almost 1.30 in just a few months. This is crazy! The craziest part is that the administration which has caused the weak dollar will probably be reelected (hangs head in shame). So the best I can come up with is to hedge our bets and move 50% now and 50% when its needed (about 2 years) and hope for the best. That puts us in neutral situation where we equally get screwed and benefit.... I hope!
Well I think Contango10 mentioned an interesting point. What I keep seeing reading Irish e-news is worry about the raising euro making it too expensive for the US to do business in Ireland. Its a funny situation, on one hand you should wish for the Euro to climb but unfortunately we're in this pickle where the US has all this influence making the raise undesirable for the economy. So today [broken link removed] the ECB is looking at curbing this trend and calling these wild fluctuations "unwelcome".
As a US outsider I can certainly understand the economics of why the raise is undesirable. I'm over here wishing the dollar will rise so I can move USD over to Euro (and after that feck the dollar). But I don't know what to do, I think if I wait I'll be screwed. But ultimately, after this administration of the next the dollar has to recover... its an inevitability that the US will recover unless we are to believe that the US is really at a cusp of going downhill (and with all the recent drama I can see how people might take that perspective although they are probably fooling themselves).
Since we sold our house and decided to move I've seen the rate go from 1.17 to almost 1.30 in just a few months. This is crazy! The craziest part is that the administration which has caused the weak dollar will probably be reelected (hangs head in shame). So the best I can come up with is to hedge our bets and move 50% now and 50% when its needed (about 2 years) and hope for the best. That puts us in neutral situation where we equally get screwed and benefit.... I hope!
A
<A HREF=http://pub145.ezboard.com/baskaboutmoney.s
Guest
Re: a US perspective
I made the point on another topic that in macroeconomics few things, including a strong or weak currency, are intrinsically "good" or "bad" but involve many attendant and sometimes conflicting trade offs. It's all a balancing act...
Then again, macroeconomics never was my forté...
I made the point on another topic that in macroeconomics few things, including a strong or weak currency, are intrinsically "good" or "bad" but involve many attendant and sometimes conflicting trade offs. It's all a balancing act...
Then again, macroeconomics never was my forté...
H
heinbloed
Guest
powerhungry unions in france and germany
Yesterday the unions of Germany reported a loss of 300.000 members for the last year , the highest loss for all times . The governing " socialists " reported as well a dramatic loss in members , back to their member numbers
of 1963 .
Power greedy you might call them , but without sense and support ....
Yesterday the unions of Germany reported a loss of 300.000 members for the last year , the highest loss for all times . The governing " socialists " reported as well a dramatic loss in members , back to their member numbers
of 1963 .
Power greedy you might call them , but without sense and support ....
T
True Blue
Guest
Re: euro flawed or what?
Ummm....
Centre right in all but name. Just take a look at their spending habits and the social programs they’ve initiated. Our own government has being branded ‘right wing’ a la carte Margaret Thatcher style. Yeah right, this is a government that has capitulated to unions, spends spends spends and thinks not of signing over our rights to EU bureaucrats.
Union power is most certainly not on the wane in the EU. Have people froggy, sorry foggy memories? The French favorite pastime is to go on strike.
Our economy is linked into the US and UK whether we like it or not. We seem to have the same cyclic economic performance as those above mentioned countries. After 9-11 when the US economy dipped so did ours. We, like the British, have the highest home ownership in EU mainly with variable rate mortgages. (Watch out for those ECB controlled interest rates!)
And finally, I most certainly won’t hang my head in shame if Bush gets voted in again.
Cheers,
Blue
Ummm....
Centre right in all but name. Just take a look at their spending habits and the social programs they’ve initiated. Our own government has being branded ‘right wing’ a la carte Margaret Thatcher style. Yeah right, this is a government that has capitulated to unions, spends spends spends and thinks not of signing over our rights to EU bureaucrats.
Union power is most certainly not on the wane in the EU. Have people froggy, sorry foggy memories? The French favorite pastime is to go on strike.
Our economy is linked into the US and UK whether we like it or not. We seem to have the same cyclic economic performance as those above mentioned countries. After 9-11 when the US economy dipped so did ours. We, like the British, have the highest home ownership in EU mainly with variable rate mortgages. (Watch out for those ECB controlled interest rates!)
And finally, I most certainly won’t hang my head in shame if Bush gets voted in again.
Cheers,
Blue
N
newkie1
Guest
Sorry to go off-topic but...
Blue, care to elaborate? Its that kind of attitude that confounds me endlessly. I read these reports about how Bush is a shoe-in and his approval rating and I have to wonder who the feck are these people and what are they thinking? Sure Gore was a robot but I doubt the US economy would be in the shambles it is, despite 9/11, if he were elected... oh wait, he was. Democracy? Yeah right, its a polyarchy safely out of the hands of the public "animal" but that's another story.
Perhaps I have simply "come of age" and had my first bitter pill in seeing my government act on its own accord against world opinion and mine. That is to say, the government moved away from anything resembling intelligence towards a full frontal lobotomy. For over 60 years American foreign policy was a carefully orchestrated house of cards starting with the creation of the UN. And single-handedly this president destroyed that in one swift stroke. My problem with Bush is not Iraq, but his dim-witted approach to foreign policy which thus affects the economy which in turn affect the currency exchange rate which ultimately pisses me off (see, I did manage to bring this full-circle)!
So here we have a president with the IQ of a turnip, controlled by oil and old money, surrounded by idiot hawks, no regard to foreign policy (which is 90% of the presidents real power, domestic power really lies in the senate) and this guy is a shoe-in? He's been to Europe what, three times? I don't know, it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in the other 49 states. I have to assume that most of my country is filled with buck-toothed, inbred red-necks with full sized American flags waving proudly from their pickup trucks emblazoned with bumper stickers reading "don't tread on me". The same people whom like Bud, pro-wrestling, reality TV shows, and think Ireland is a part of the UK. You want that reelected? Because Bush is one of them, probably near the bottom of the barrel actually, which is why the idiots love him.. because they can relate to him! But, confound it, this is not the type of person to choose as the single representative the US presents to the rest of the world. We should choose the best, but instead we have... Bush.
Please read this article fully, it is most enlightening: msnbc.msn.com/id/3068616/
Blue, care to elaborate? Its that kind of attitude that confounds me endlessly. I read these reports about how Bush is a shoe-in and his approval rating and I have to wonder who the feck are these people and what are they thinking? Sure Gore was a robot but I doubt the US economy would be in the shambles it is, despite 9/11, if he were elected... oh wait, he was. Democracy? Yeah right, its a polyarchy safely out of the hands of the public "animal" but that's another story.
Perhaps I have simply "come of age" and had my first bitter pill in seeing my government act on its own accord against world opinion and mine. That is to say, the government moved away from anything resembling intelligence towards a full frontal lobotomy. For over 60 years American foreign policy was a carefully orchestrated house of cards starting with the creation of the UN. And single-handedly this president destroyed that in one swift stroke. My problem with Bush is not Iraq, but his dim-witted approach to foreign policy which thus affects the economy which in turn affect the currency exchange rate which ultimately pisses me off (see, I did manage to bring this full-circle)!
So here we have a president with the IQ of a turnip, controlled by oil and old money, surrounded by idiot hawks, no regard to foreign policy (which is 90% of the presidents real power, domestic power really lies in the senate) and this guy is a shoe-in? He's been to Europe what, three times? I don't know, it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in the other 49 states. I have to assume that most of my country is filled with buck-toothed, inbred red-necks with full sized American flags waving proudly from their pickup trucks emblazoned with bumper stickers reading "don't tread on me". The same people whom like Bud, pro-wrestling, reality TV shows, and think Ireland is a part of the UK. You want that reelected? Because Bush is one of them, probably near the bottom of the barrel actually, which is why the idiots love him.. because they can relate to him! But, confound it, this is not the type of person to choose as the single representative the US presents to the rest of the world. We should choose the best, but instead we have... Bush.
Please read this article fully, it is most enlightening: msnbc.msn.com/id/3068616/
T
True Blue
Guest
Re: Sorry to go off-topic but...
1. A majority voted Bush in. Get over it.
2. ‘…..house of cards starting with the creation of the UN. And single-handedly this president destroyed that in one swift stroke’
I wish that were true. You complain about democracy yet you want to single handedly give the UN control of American foreign policy? The UN is one massive undemocratic, bias, unaccountable organization a bit like the Democrat party and the EU. The UN is not there to prevent wars and ensure fair play and equality. It is there to be manipulated for self interests and tyranny, note: France and The West Coast of Africa, Russia and Chechnya, China and Taiwan (incidentally, the UN doesn’t even recognize Taiwan. It’s a but like area 51)
3. ‘…. a president with the IQ of a turnip, controlled by oil and old money,….’
Actaully the majority of people that support Bush financially are middle class Americans and not the big ‘multi nashnulls’ oil com’nies. Michael moore for instance is Bush’s best friend, the more he critises Bush (with lies and incomplete facts) the more middle America becomes infuriated and switch to supporting Bush. Also, your name calling doesn’t change a thing. If the majority of Black people voted for Bush would you ridicule them and call them derogatory names?
Bush was right to go to war and finish off an incomplete job, thanks to the UN. So what if the French, Russians, Germans and Chinese didn’t support America? plenty of other countries did.
Roll on Nov ’04. Get it on!!
Oh you are right stick to the point.
Turez Bluez
www.nationalreview.com/
1. A majority voted Bush in. Get over it.
2. ‘…..house of cards starting with the creation of the UN. And single-handedly this president destroyed that in one swift stroke’
I wish that were true. You complain about democracy yet you want to single handedly give the UN control of American foreign policy? The UN is one massive undemocratic, bias, unaccountable organization a bit like the Democrat party and the EU. The UN is not there to prevent wars and ensure fair play and equality. It is there to be manipulated for self interests and tyranny, note: France and The West Coast of Africa, Russia and Chechnya, China and Taiwan (incidentally, the UN doesn’t even recognize Taiwan. It’s a but like area 51)
3. ‘…. a president with the IQ of a turnip, controlled by oil and old money,….’
Actaully the majority of people that support Bush financially are middle class Americans and not the big ‘multi nashnulls’ oil com’nies. Michael moore for instance is Bush’s best friend, the more he critises Bush (with lies and incomplete facts) the more middle America becomes infuriated and switch to supporting Bush. Also, your name calling doesn’t change a thing. If the majority of Black people voted for Bush would you ridicule them and call them derogatory names?
Bush was right to go to war and finish off an incomplete job, thanks to the UN. So what if the French, Russians, Germans and Chinese didn’t support America? plenty of other countries did.
Roll on Nov ’04. Get it on!!
Oh you are right stick to the point.
Turez Bluez
www.nationalreview.com/
N
N0elC
Guest
Re: Sorry to go off-topic but...
True Blue,
Interesting to see this [broken link removed] article on your weblink.
I think that, for many Irish people, pretty much sums up the reasons that so many of us are uncomfortable with the governance of President Bush and the GOP.
True Blue,
Interesting to see this [broken link removed] article on your weblink.
I think that, for many Irish people, pretty much sums up the reasons that so many of us are uncomfortable with the governance of President Bush and the GOP.
R
rainyday
Guest
Re: Sorry to go off-topic but...
No -they didn't. More US voters voted for Gore. A majority of the Bush-supporter-populated Supreme Court and some ethnic cleansing of the Florida electoral register put Bush in power.
T
True Blue
Guest
Re: Sorry to go off-topic but...
'Interesting to see this anti-Irish article on your weblink'
One guy writes a so-called 'anti-Irish' view and your willing to lambaste Bush and the GOP?! I have read plenty of articles on that site that are pro-Irish.
While I don't agree with all of the article myself I do understand that the author is trying to tell us that we are in for a long haul when it comes to fighting terrorism. Hence the mess of the Northern Ireland peace process.
'No -they didn't. More US voters voted for Gore. ....'
Yes they did. Bush won on the college vote. It was the democrats that tried to use the race card and thankfully didn't succeed. Where did you come up with this ethnic cleansing idea, it's astounding, methinks you reading to much of Michael Moore!
Could people please stick to the subject of my original posting?
Blue.
'Interesting to see this anti-Irish article on your weblink'
One guy writes a so-called 'anti-Irish' view and your willing to lambaste Bush and the GOP?! I have read plenty of articles on that site that are pro-Irish.
While I don't agree with all of the article myself I do understand that the author is trying to tell us that we are in for a long haul when it comes to fighting terrorism. Hence the mess of the Northern Ireland peace process.
'No -they didn't. More US voters voted for Gore. ....'
Yes they did. Bush won on the college vote. It was the democrats that tried to use the race card and thankfully didn't succeed. Where did you come up with this ethnic cleansing idea, it's astounding, methinks you reading to much of Michael Moore!
Could people please stick to the subject of my original posting?
Blue.
C
Contango10
Guest
successful currency
One way to measure the success of a currency is to check whether it is holding its value. Well, eurozone inflation is about 2% so, yes, the euro is not losing value too fast.
Too high inflation is what weakens and debases currencies.
Also, the euro is used, day in, day out, by 300m people. If that isn't success, the what is???
Yes, EMU members have lost control over interest rates and exchange rates. But the euro also brings gains to members, i.e. for trade and price transparency.
Contango10
One way to measure the success of a currency is to check whether it is holding its value. Well, eurozone inflation is about 2% so, yes, the euro is not losing value too fast.
Too high inflation is what weakens and debases currencies.
Also, the euro is used, day in, day out, by 300m people. If that isn't success, the what is???
Yes, EMU members have lost control over interest rates and exchange rates. But the euro also brings gains to members, i.e. for trade and price transparency.
Contango10
R
rainyday
Guest
Re: Sorry to go off-topic but...
Yes, it really was astounding. Read all about it in this article [broken link removed] - Far more detailed than Moore's little investigation.
Don't bring up other issues if you don't expect to be challenged on them.
R
Rodders
Guest
re: sorry to go off topic but....!
Hi folks,
Please tell me that True Blue is extracting the mick here!
Amongst other statements made, I find it interesting to see that Mr. Chirac and his Government is regarded as socialist!! :rolleyes
I see this particular viewpoint is riddled with throwaway one liners that passes for commentary which is a little sad considering it would have been interesting to have a sensible debate on the Euro issue.
If True Blue is for real (or perhaps surreal?) then all I can say is welcome to this quadrant of the galaxy. Beep!
And as for Dubya, the less said the better methinks!
Regards,
Rodders.
Hi folks,
Please tell me that True Blue is extracting the mick here!
Amongst other statements made, I find it interesting to see that Mr. Chirac and his Government is regarded as socialist!! :rolleyes
I see this particular viewpoint is riddled with throwaway one liners that passes for commentary which is a little sad considering it would have been interesting to have a sensible debate on the Euro issue.
If True Blue is for real (or perhaps surreal?) then all I can say is welcome to this quadrant of the galaxy. Beep!
And as for Dubya, the less said the better methinks!
Regards,
Rodders.
T
True Blue
Guest
Re: re: sorry to go off topic but....!
Rainyday :- I find the author of your link dubious ( he writes for the Observer! – enough said ) but I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree This is not the time or the place though.. I brought up Bush because someone else did in another posting (Newkie I think)
Rodders: For one who’s calling for a sensible debate on the Euro I’ve noticed you didn’t offer anything on the topic. Please go back and read my other postings with regards to the Euro and tell me what you think if you can manage that of course.
Rainyday :- I find the author of your link dubious ( he writes for the Observer! – enough said ) but I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree This is not the time or the place though.. I brought up Bush because someone else did in another posting (Newkie I think)
Rodders: For one who’s calling for a sensible debate on the Euro I’ve noticed you didn’t offer anything on the topic. Please go back and read my other postings with regards to the Euro and tell me what you think if you can manage that of course.