Not disagreeing with your main points but, isn't that what the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund (sovereign wealth/investment fund) is intended for?Stick the money into funds that appreciate and deploy it when the next major recession hits, keeping the likes of our construction sector in business rather than heading off to Australia like last time.
There is a major sense of pre-crash off this budget. Major increases in spending, opposition calling for even more, further narrowing of the tax base, and economic experts waved away with a hand. This time, instead of a credit fueled housing bubble we have a multinational tax take influenced by global changes in taxation rules and the quarterly sales performance of a handful of companies. iPhone 16 not selling well in China? There goes the deficit.
In terms of investing the money now - the economy is running at full tilt. "Lets build more of x" - where will the construction workers come from to complete what is already being built plus these new projects? Or will we just increase the cost of delivering roughly the same volume of concrete poured.
Stick the money into funds that appreciate and deploy it when the next major recession hits, keeping the likes of our construction sector in business rather than heading off to Australia like last time.
Hard to believe that the last time we did all this was only 15 years ago! Jack Chambers or his successor could well be on Prime Time in a few years reminding us that we all partied....
Part of the money is going in - I believe the underlying deficit is €6bn after you strip out the money going to the SIF. Then there's arguments back and forth over what is "one off" spending - a lot of one off measures are starting to look very permanent. So if we hit the skids we look like we'll do what we did post 2008: Gut capital spending, because current spending is so far out over the skis.Not disagreeing with your main points but, isn't that what the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund (sovereign wealth/investment fund) is intended for?
It’s completely circular. They are windfall because they are windfall.'the Department’s estimate of corporation tax receipts that may be ‘windfall’ in nature' is as close as the paper gets to a definition of 'windfall'
Yes it would be much better if our public finances were based on farming and shoe making.Look at corp tax creeping up beside income tax!........I've said it before and I'll say it again.......Ireland is now a two times levered SPY or QQQ mutual fund.......our public finances are basically predicated on record profit margins & current market positioning persisting at a handful of mega-cap companies.....some of those companies - Apple, Microsoft, Google - seem invincible but so too did Eastman Kodak in its day.
There's a deeply troubling operational leverage inherent in our economic model that could go in reverse very very quickly........I haven't seen the analysis but suspect a huge proportion of income tax receipts are also coming from SPY/QQQ company employees too......
Very dangerous stuff to do what we're doing with the public finances.....Ireland has infrastructure deficits, no doubt about it.....and money has to be thrown at this for sure...so no problem with one time capital expenditure...the spending commitments being directed on current and future expenditure is going to put future governments and future generations in a tight spot.
Maybe Pascal when he's IMF chief in the future can fly back for a couple of days to give us a dig out!
While poor iPhone sales in China will not affect the Irish economy or tax take much, a major slow down in the international economy would affect us. It is often said that as an open economy it would affect us disproportionately, but I suspect that pharmaceuticals, medical devices, tech and HQ services are unlikely to be the first to suffer.There is a major sense of pre-crash off this budget. Major increases in spending, opposition calling for even more, further narrowing of the tax base, and economic experts waved away with a hand. This time, instead of a credit fueled housing bubble we have a multinational tax take influenced by global changes in taxation rules and the quarterly sales performance of a handful of companies. iPhone 16 not selling well in China? There goes the deficit.
What funds that appreciate are these, Apple shares anyone ?In terms of investing the money now - the economy is running at full tilt. "Lets build more of x" - where will the construction workers come from to complete what is already being built plus these new projects? Or will we just increase the cost of delivering roughly the same volume of concrete poured.
Stick the money into funds that appreciate and deploy it when the next major recession hits, keeping the likes of our construction sector in business rather than heading off to Australia like last time.
Good examples of national funds for us to follow, that are well diversified.What funds that appreciate are these, Apple shares anyone ?
Finding the construction workers and addressing the other bottle necks is certainly a challenge, but waiting for a downturn is not the way to address it.
There's a deeply troubling operational leverage inherent in our economic model that could go in reverse very very quickly........I haven't seen the analysis but suspect a huge proportion of income tax receipts are also coming from SPY/QQQ company employees too......
This has always confused me. In the modern era why shouldn't stuff like IP licensing transfers and airplane leasing be considered legitimate economic activity?But in Ireland we are getting huge amounts of tax not related to any economic activity in Ireland.
As noted by jpd - This is a case of "easy come, easy go." The OECD went through a round of corporate tax rule changes that we cooperated in, and ended up benefitting greatly from. Those reforms are not finished, and the next pillar of them is to come. And I could see a situation where third parties again look at the likes of Ireland rolling in surpluses and wanting to go again on the rules. The next thing of note is that policymakers abroad could lean on their domestic champions, or provide incentives, to bring the IP home.This has always confused me. In the modern era why shouldn't stuff like IP licensing transfers and airplane leasing be considered legitimate economic activity?
I would classify them as being a 2002 or a 2008 scenario:The chart below from IFAC's budget flash release says it all really. We're baking in huge current expenditure increases every year and it's all built on sand. I do think the risk to CT receipts may be overstated by some, it's not like they're all going to up and leave or fail, but as outlined by @C_Pike above, with the current level of concentration risk, even one or two of them moving their IP back to the US during a Trump presidency could see the public finances under acute pressure.
I would classify them as being a 2002 or a 2008 scenario:
2002, global slowdown. Profits decline. CT receipts decline by a material amount, say 20-30% over two to three years. Reasonable amount of layoffs. We are forced to take harder cuts than we otherwise would, because of the concentration risk and level of spending now baked in. Alternative world: We save the money and deploy it precisely when the CT receipts fall, in expectation they'll rise again, to get us through the period.
2008, fundamental systemic change (like further OECD pillar changes or re-shoring of IP to the US by major CT payers), we return to the world of €5-10bn a year in CT receipts. Bang, we're doing emergency budgets and the FinMin is telling us "we all partied." Alternative world: These revenues have not appeared in the current expenditure, went to sovereign wealth funds, and get deployed to transition us to our next economic trick (we'll allow sentient AI to domicile here in peace or something).
I dunno which it will be, or it could be both one after the other, or maybe neither and this all comes good - we just continue taking in huge CT receipts forever. But I dunno, I just don't feel good about taking the chance again - I recall the male suicide rate went up 57% the last time we binned the economy on foot of well flagged risks.
Isn't the discussion rather one-sided though?This is not nonsense. It is something we have to be aware of.
In most economies, the tax comes from economic activity within that economy.
If the UK decides it wants to increase spending on the health service, they have to raise taxes somewhere.
But in Ireland we are getting huge amounts of tax not related to any economic activity in Ireland.
Brendan
Isn't the discussion rather one-sided though?
Shouldn't we also discuss the nature of our domestic activity that persistently necessitates reliance of foreign tax receipts, windfall or otherwise?
This in essence is the argument being put forward here by many contributors.it's all built on sand.
I like it but the Pyramids have wide bases, Irish tax receipts do not.This in essence is the argument being put forward here by many contributors.
Built on sand, like the pyramids !
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