Estate has Insufficient Funds to Cover Funeral Expenses.

Derry

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I am trying to sort out the affairs of a recently deceased relative Who was widowed but had no family.

I received a phone call today from the solicitor informing me that there are insufficient funds in the estate to pay for the funeral expenses.

This relative left no will, had no life Insurance, a very small balance in a savings account which would not cover the funeral expenses.

Their only asset was their home which will shortly be put on the market to pay the Fair Deal Scheme, Nursing Home shortfall, Legal fees, Estate agents fees.

I will have to get a credit union loan to pay the funeral expenses.

Can I claim for this credit union loan for the Undertaker against her estate ?

Thanks in advance,
Derry
 

Ravima

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If person died intestate, then the assets will be distributed as prescribed by law. The solicitor should be able to advise. Will sale of house produce a surplus over payment of all the bills, INCLUDING funeral expenses?
 

Derry

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Thanks for the replies Palerider & Ravima.

I don't know what price the house will make. It is a very old house and is also a listed building. Has not been occupied for the last 15 years or so . It's not in great shape. But solicitor not hopeful sale price will produce a surplus.
 

Bronte

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I always thought funeral expenses came before other debts. That there’s an order in which debts would be paid, ask your solicitor to clarify the order.

How much is the house worth? How much is the solicitor fee ?
 

NoRegretsCoyote

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Their only asset was their home which will shortly be put on the market to pay the Fair Deal Scheme, Nursing Home shortfall, Legal fees, Estate agents fees.
The Fair Deal contribution is capped at 7.5% of the value of the house, for up to three years, so a maximum of 22.5% of the value.

Are you aware of that?


If you're comfortable, it would make sense to provide more details (including outstanding amounts) so that you can get better advice.
 

Romulan

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Experienced similar although simpler in the sense of no assets at all.

Three members of the family, niece, nephew and sister of the deceased chipped in to cover cost.
A brother of the deceased declined.

I could do a podcast on families, elderly relatives, death and money...................
 

AlbacoreA

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The Fair Deal contribution is capped at 7.5% of the value of the house, for up to three years, so a maximum of 22.5% of the value.
...
Yes but the house has to be sold to pay this 22.5% after the person has passed. if there is no other means in the estate to pay it.
 

noproblem

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I do know of SVDP stepping in and paying the amount, also know of a few undertakers who buried people and waited until the deceased affairs were in order before they were paid and sometimes the estates didn't cover the costs but the undertakers carried the loss without ever saying anything. If everything else fails you should have a chat with one or two undertakers. They've helped many people in their time with very little said.
 

Ravima

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House is to be sold. Fair Deal get 22.5%. House not worth much.

Assume house is worth €25K before auctioneer fees, that means that HSE get about €5500. Assume solicitor gets €5000 to include VAT and outlays, that leaves €14500 to pay funeral expenses. How expensive was the funeral?
 

Derry

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Thanks everyone for your replies.
A local auctioneer has valued the house for the probate office at€45, 000 he has no savings to speak of €450.00 and only €156 in the credit union. Funeral bill was €7000
 

twofor1

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€45,000 is not a lot, there is probably legitimate reasons why there might not be enough for funeral expenses, you have mentioned solicitor, auctioneer, etc.

The solicitor should be able to say where the €45,000 from the house sale is going.

Was the house originally valued for Fair Deal purposes at more than today's expected sale price. What is owed to the HSE will be based on the original valuation, not todays sale price. As the house has been empty for 15 years and in poor repair, its possible it is worth less now than then.

How is there so little savings ? A single persons state pension is around €250 weekly, is this not paid for 6 weeks after death ?
 

Feemar5

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In the case of insolvency debts should be paid in the following order:

1. Funeral Expenses and Administration expenses
2. Secured creditors such as mortgage
3..Preferential debts such as taxes
4. Ordinary debts such as credit cards etc.,
 

RedOnion

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@Derry
I think you need to sit down with the solicitor, and work out whether the estate is insolvent or not.
If it's insolvent, there's a specific order that debts must be paid, as outlined above. There's also no point in you being personally out of pocket when there are legal rules in place to deal with such a scenario.
 

noproblem

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Thanks everyone for your replies.
A local auctioneer has valued the house for the probate office at€45, 000 he has no savings to speak of €450.00 and only €156 in the credit union. Funeral bill was €7000
Sorry about your relatives passing but. it's a signal to all of us to have some plans in place for when our time comes. I don't know what part of the country you come from or where the deceased had the house but at €45k it's very little indeed, one would pay that for most rural sites and it would be cheap. The fact the house is a listed building can put off buyers but at that price I would imagine there may be some very interested clients, especially if there's some contents inside/outside. Have you a trusted friend who might have an understanding of these things, if so ask for assistance. €7k for a funeral is not cheap but I don't know the circumstances or what was involved in this. How much are the fair deal looking for and what was happening to her pension every week to only leave the small amount as mentioned? I do hope everything works out well in the end.
 

Derry

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Thanks again everyone for your replies.

1. House was valued for the Fair Deal Scheme at €65,000 originally.
2. House valued by Local Auctioneer for Probate Office last week. He valued it at €45,000 the reason being it has fallen in to disrepair. It had lain empty for the best part of 15 years. The house has also never been registered with the land registry, the Fair Deal Scheme People were very quick to inform the solicitor of this fact.

House has No central heating. Only open fires with No Back boiler. It is a very old house built in early 1800's.
the auctioneer told us that whoever buys the house would have to spend a considerable amount on it to bring it up to modern standards.




The €7,000 Funeral Bill broken down is € 4500 for the funeral. €2,900 for a new headstone and Kerbing of grave, Leveling of it and New chippings plus VAT .The existing headstone must be replaced for health & safety reasons. It is very old Over 100 years old, very wobbly & unsteady and there is no room for further inscriptions.
 
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