Equitable? Compare and contrast

M

Max Hopper

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Hotelier Jim Mansfield's firm, HSS Limited, has been fined €1,750 for starting work on a giant conference centre at Citywest in Dublin without planning permission.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->...with<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Judge Sean O'Donnabhain yesterday warned defendant, John Paul Murphy (24), that he must now pay victim Brian O'Connell €10,000 in compensation - after he initially offered to pay just €1,500 to the victim in court. Mr. Murphy punched Mr O'Connell a number of times causing considerable damage to his face and head.
 
..

One is a fine, the other is compensation. You're not comparing like with like.
 
Re: ..

First example seems a bit lenient! Its gas how the judges give the men with the big bucks fines that would hardly break the bank for them!!
 
What?!

REDBHOY- What would you prefer to happen to you? A rich guy living down the road building a gaudy back extension with no planning permission? Or a thug pummeling your face and beats you to an inch of Brain Damage?
 
Seeing as one is , here is a paraphrasing of the judge's comment (reporter's, not mine) -<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->"Judge O'Donnabhain rejected the amount as not enough and said that he felt the defendant was not attaching sufficient importance to the compensation issue."<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->From where I stand, it appears that the judge was attempting to affect behaviour modification.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->And does anyone believe that a €10,000 fine (which is what any court award is) will prevent Murphy from repeating his crime?<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Some community service (scraping chewing gum off the pavement would suit Dick Roche) could certainly help refocus Murphy's thoughts.
 
Jim Mansfield

I am not personally familiar with the Jim Mansfield situation, but from the newspapers I seem to recall that the situation was as follows:

1. He had a decision to grant planning permission from the local planning authority.

2. Nobody had made submissions in the planning process to object (or if they had, their objections had presumably been overcome - as I said, I have no personal familiarity); If you want to object to a planning decision, you must first make submissions during the planning process. This is to stop people bringing out objections at the last minute.

3. An Taisce is exempt from the requirement to make an initial submission to planners - they can go straight to An Bord Pleanala. They lobbed in an appeal against the decision on or close to the last day for appeals. Mansfield had already started work.

In short, if I understand (and remember) the reports correctly, Mansfield started building before the final planning came through BUT in circumstances where he (possibly not unreasonably) thought that the final grant of planning was only a formality. I must say, it doesn't strike me as the sort of development area in which one would have expected An Taisce to take an interest (but mind you I think their appeal was successful, so I presume it was justifiable).

Anyway, in the end, Mansfield received a real financial kicking over all of this. He started with a relatively minor piece of jumping the gun and ended up with a huge expense on a development where he was ultimately refused planning.

Imagine for a moment that you had been granted permission by the local planners for an extension, there were no objections in and you were just awaiting final grant. Is there one among us who would turn away the builders if they turned up the week before the final grant issued instead of the the week after? (Rainyday - you are exempted from replying!)?

I think it entirely possible that the judge in the Mansfield case saw the huge losses that Mansfield has already sustained through his own precipitate action and decided that he has already been punished enough by circumstance. This doesn't strike me as wrong.

By way of more general observation, (and meaning no personal criticism) our courts system is by no means perfect, but comparisons of the sort made at the start of this discussion do not generally serve to promote informed debate. Comparisons of this type are a favourite of the tabloids - in my view they contribute to a growth in cynicism, a general lack of faith in our institutions and ultimately the undermining of such institutions. A reasoned defence is never going to get the same publicity as a snappy headline or soundbite. Such is the way of the world - but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
 
Re: What?!

Either you think I have a brain impairment myself or you werent aware that I wasnt aware that he was beaten to within an inch of brain damage! Therefore i wont dignify your response with an answer as its blatantly obvious.
The thug should have seen a lot of time inside mountjoy for some 'rehabilitation' and his fine should have been a lot more than 10K to ensure that this type of action doesnt happen again.
The Mansfield lad should have got a higher fine in my opinion too. He broke the law at the end of the day and should have received a substantial fine in order that he doesnt flout planning laws again. In this country, the law is too lenient which almost encourages people to break it!!
It should be ran on the principle of an electric shock... i.e. This post will be deleted if not edited to remove bad language that was some whack.. I wont be doing that again!!
 
?

What is 'An Taisce' amd why on Earth would they not allow him to go ahead with this badly needed venture?

I suspect it's the fault of meddling civil servants, again.
 
Re: ?

an taisce - the self appointed and government endorsed protectors of the countryside. they believe that everyone should live in a 3 bed box in dublin,cork,galwy etc and that the countryside is a place that should not be touched so that we can drive through it and appreciate it every bank holiday weekend. if you commit the cardinal sin of building a house in the country, they are there to make sure that it is as near to a perfect rectangle / dormer rectangle as possible and make sure that the windows are no bigger than 3 feet square.

anyone know where i can get a membership form? :)
 
not much good

Well they mustn't be any good, as the countryside is full of one-off houses.
 
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