intermissionian
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I lived in Dublin in the early 2000s, leaving in 2012, and had accumulated 488 paid PRSI contributions at that point. I'm from Northern Ireland originally and am now working in the UK, with over 11 years of NI contributions made so far.
I expect to retire in the UK in the future (I'm 48 now). My understanding is that come retirement age I could potentially claim a state pension in each jurisdiction depending on contributions made in each country. However, I am currently short of the 520 minimum PRSI contributions to be entitled to claim the Irish state pension.
My understanding is that the only way for me to make up that shortfall would be to return to Ireland to work for a period of time (or work remotely for an Irish employer). Would that be correct? I don't believe I am entitled to pay voluntary contributions at this point.
Trying to read the rules and regulations around the CTA, Brexit etc as a layperson is not straightforward and it makes it a bit murkier trying to figure out how this will all work at retirement as I have read that the contributions made in both jurisdictions can be combined, e.g. Combining contributions
However, I phoned the pension hotline in the UK and asked if I could use my Irish PRSI contributions at retirement to enhance my UK state pension and they said no - that I would have to qualify separately in Ireland. So that advice is at odds with combining contributions. In any case I assume if you were going to combine contributions that would mean only claiming pension in one country.
So in trying to figure out what is best in order to maximise my state pension(s) - the only option I can see is as I mentioned, returning to Ireland for a while to make up the shortfall and get over the line on 520 paid PRSI contributions. Hopefully that would enable me to claim a partial pension in both places.
Is my understanding correct or are there any other options/considerations I haven't thought of?
However, I phoned the pension hotline in the UK and asked if I could use my Irish PRSI contributions at retirement to enhance my UK state pension and they said no - that I would have to qualify separately in Ireland. So that advice is at odds with combining contributions
So if nothing changes, you would be eligible for both a small Irish pension plus your UK pension. With 488 reckonable Irish PRSI contributions, assuming that you don't make any more, I estimate that your pro rata Irish pension would be approximately 23% of the full rate.
Would this not mean using UK Social Insurance contributions for the UK pension and using the same ones (or some of them) to satisfy the conditions for the Irish Pension (Pro Rata calculation)? Is dual use of the same contributions allowed?
That's one for the DSP
When in your first year did you start working ? If it was late in the year it is possible you have enough Pre Entry Credits to bring you up to the required 520. PEC’s don’t appear on your contribution record but will be taken into account when your eligibility for a state pension is being considered.I lived in Dublin in the early 2000s, leaving in 2012, and had accumulated 488 paid PRSI contributions at that point.
Are there any other options/considerations I haven't thought of?
Hi Black Sheep, yes I do. I got the detailed breakdown, which shows the paid, credited, paid reckonable and credited reckonable contributions. I have 488 paid reckonable contributions, which I believe is the key one in terms of qualifying for the 520 threshold.I am assuming you have an official copy of your PRSI contributions record and not just your own calculation?
Thanks twofor1, I was completely unaware of that. I started on 1st October 2001. 2001 was the short tax year, so in that case I may have PECs covering April - September that aren't shown on the statement? Interesting! I think that would be another 25 credits potentially.When in your first year did you start working ? If it was late in the year it is possible you have enough Pre Entry Credits to bring you up to the required 520. PEC’s don’t appear on your contribution record but will be taken into account when your eligibility for a state pension is being considered.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/irish-social-welfare-system/social-insurance-prsi/credited-social-insurance-contributions/#:~:text=Pre-entry credits when you,2 previous income tax years.
That is interesting that I would still get a pro-rata amount. I suppose my question becomes, based on todays rules, would it make a material difference if I made up the shortfall to get over the 520 contributions and qualify for the Irish pension independently of contributions made elsewhere? If I understand correctly, once over 520 contributions the 'normal average' rules could be used to calculate the pension, and since I would have over 10/year I think in todays terms that would equate to €106.00 / week or 41% of the €265.30 maximum? I'm basing that on 40years as I entered the insurance system at 26yo.
Thank you Shirazman, this is all really useful info that I wasn't aware of & exactly what I hoped to get from this thread. Hadn't heard about that announcement from the Minister for Social Protection, so it is good to know that 'normal average' may not be around in the future.The Minister for Social Protection announced last year that her intention is for the 'normal average' rules to be phased out over the next decade.
Even allowing for the inevitable slippage in introducing the proposed legislation, I think it's very unlikely that your contributory pension (assuming that you reach the required 520 contributions) would be calculated under that method but will instead be calculated on the Total Contribution Approach.
So the value of your contributory pension would be 520/2080ths of the full amount, or 25%.
Finally, and this is important - please note that pre-entry credits don't count towards the 520 PAID PRSI contributions that you need for contributory pension eligibility. They will come into play only after you have reached the threshold, not before!
please note that pre-entry credits don't count towards the 520 PAID PRSI contributions that you need for contributory pension eligibility. They will come into play only after you have reached the threshold, not before!
There is no contradiction. Shirazman is correct. No credits apply unless the rules for the minimum amount of paid contributions are met first. Once you have enough paid contributions then the pre entry credits might allow a person to qualify for a larger pension.
Thanks. But then the Citizens Information entry is poorly phrased.
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