election 2020 trump v who

None. If the US was a dictatorship (and its getting closer in the last 3 years) and Trump was the only candidate I still would not vote for him.
 
Conan said:
None. If the US was a dictatorship (and its getting closer in the last 3 years) and Trump was the only candidate I still would not vote for him.
Click to expand...

Washington is operated through corporate fascism. The US is a country with hundreds of millions of voters, but only two political parties contesting for the Presidency. Each are bought out by corporate interests.
Typical example is the candidate Bloomberg, who admitted on stage last week that he spent $100m to get candidates into Congress to control Trump. This is not a democracy, voting participation has been in decline for decades. And when the 'wrong' person gets elected, the American public are force fed a diet of Russian conspiracy theories. The latest is that Russia is interfering again (its not demonstrated how) to get Sanders as the nominee in order to facilitate another Trump win. Even though, out of all the Democratic candidates, Sanders is the only one who polls anywhere close to, or better than Trump.
Biden, Warren, Buttigieg et al are dead ducks in a contest against Trump.
 
In the most recent Fox News poll (Trump News) it has all the Democrat contenders ahead of Trump. But Trump will call that more “fake news” even though it comes from a totally sycophantic “News” organization.
 
WolfeTone said:
The latest is that Russia is interfering again (its not demonstrated how) to get Sanders as the nominee in order to facilitate another Trump win. Even though, out of all the Democratic candidates, Sanders is the only one who polls anywhere close to, or better than Trump.
Click to expand...

The one thing Sanders has is that he speaks to the common man and woman and he has some qualities like Trump has, he is not wooden and controlled, the other democrat candidates are typical democratic candidates too liberal and upper middle class. Sanders appeals to the same voters Trump appeals to but they emphasize different things.
I think Trump will have a hard time against Sanders, he will obviously hone in on Sanders "Red" credentials, the fact that he went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon ( where have we heard of that before , oh yes the Shinners and Gerry adams were regular visitors to the soviet union back in the day)
Ironically the upper middle class democrats will end up voting for Trump rather than Sanders as they would have alot to lose under a Sanders presidency, they could be the voters that gets Trump elected this time.
 
joe sod said:
Sanders appeals to the same voters Trump appeals to but they emphasize different things.
Click to expand...

Agree. The reason why working class voters voted Trump, or didn't vote at all, is because Clinton offered nothing new other continue with the same. Obama, riding on a wave of optimism that change for poor, the marginalized could happen, was the great disillusion. He failed abysmally.

joe sod said:
the fact that he went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon
Click to expand...

The Soviet Union, Russia etc is a story line to be told by the generation of two decades ago. 'Russia gate' was a farce, as it is now. A whole generation of people are of voting age who want jobs, careers, personal independence. Russia, and the Soviet Union, Cuba, is about as relevant to them, in their world, as the Battle of the Boyne is to our generation.
In with new, out with the old.

joe sod said:
Ironically the upper middle class democrats will end up voting for Trump rather than Sanders as they would have alot to lose under a Sanders presidency,
Click to expand...

Indeed, but Sanders will win alot of those working class voters back from Trump and rejuvenate the marginalized and the disenchanted.
Invariably, in a corporatist economy like the US, there will be more working class votes than middle class. That is democracy at work.
 
WolfeTone said:
Agree. The reason why working class voters voted Trump, or didn't vote at all, is because Clinton offered nothing new other continue with the same. Obama, riding on a wave of optimism that change for poor, the marginalized could happen, was the great disillusion. He failed abysmally.
Click to expand...

also working class voters dont do "identity politics", they wont elect a woman just because she is a woman or a black man just because he is a black man , Obama was elected because he was very good candidate, was fresh and a very good charismatic speaker, the fact that he was black was also a bonus in 2008 after Bush. However the democratic party became hung up on identity politics and still is. They dont want bernie sanders like they dont want biden because he is "male, pale and stale" to use their own lingo.
 
Trump wants to run against Sanders because there’s no way someone from the far left (by American standards) will get the middle class vote. It’s that middle 20% that they are all chasing.
I have family in Boston who are life long Democrats and despise Trump who say they couldn’t vote for Sanders. He’s the American version of Corbin; a rigid idealist, out of his time, very divisive and a deeply unpleasant person.
Sanders running for the democrats means 4 more years of Trump. The election should be about getting rid of Trump and using phrases like fascism in framing America’s deeply flawed electoral process is emotive and just plain silly.
 
joe sod said:
I think Trump will have a hard time against Sanders, he will obviously hone in on Sanders "Red" credentials, the fact that he went to the Soviet Union on his honeymoon ( where have we heard of that before , oh yes the Shinners and Gerry adams were regular visitors to the soviet union back in the day)
Click to expand...
Good point although Sanders didn’t murder children and isn’t controlled by a foreign terrorist organisation and while his economic policies are nutty they aren’t as nutty as the Shinners so I think it’s unfair to place him or his supporters in the same bracket as the people who vote for child killers.
 
Purple said:
Good point although Sanders didn’t murder children and isn’t controlled by a foreign terrorist organisation and while his economic policies are nutty they aren’t as nutty as the Shinners so I think it’s unfair to place him or his supporters in the same bracket as the people who vote for child killers.
Click to expand...

The electorate is very different as well though. In the main, the US electorate have preferred political narratives which reward individual success over social programs - with some notable exceptions such as Midicare / Medicaid or Obmacare. But even these were non-trivial and still subject to reductions.

Sanders' Nordic model wouldn't be seen as all that radical over here. And it will play well to certain segments. But a large chunk of the floating voter segment are very much driven by the "Individual Responsibility" mantra that is very much part of the DNA in the US. It'll be interesting to see but he would certainly end up defending his position a lot and whether he could change the narrative and convince general voters is certainly open to question
 
Purple said:
Good point although Sanders didn’t murder children and isn’t controlled by a foreign terrorist organisation and while his economic policies are nutty they aren’t as nutty as the Shinners so I think it’s unfair to place him or his supporters in the same bracket as the people who vote for child killers.
Click to expand...
up to a few years ago I used to spend a few months every year working in the USA so I would have a good feel for who was going to win,
Hard to see Sanders winning ,
 
josh8267 said:
Hard to see Sanders winning ,
Click to expand...



I know polls have been skewered quite often in recent times, but as long as they are published they do provide some indicators.

Its hard to see anything other than that Sanders is the lead for the nomination.
 
WolfeTone said:
I know polls have been skewered quite often in recent times, but as long as they are published they do provide some indicators.

Its hard to see anything other than that Sanders is the lead for the nomination.
Click to expand...
Sorry I was not very clear winning the presidency,
 
Maybe Bloomberg could beat Trump, none of the rest, but hard for him to win the Democratic nomination. Methinks there'll be another 4 years of Trump and then both sides will put up higher calibre candidates in 2024.
WolfeTone said:
This is not a democracy . .
Click to expand...
Nothing democratic about, say, Russia or China but a stretch to make such a claim about the US with its strong institutions and free press. Ultimately the US is the guarantor for western democracy. It will weather Trump. I wouldn't be so quick to knock it.
 
Last edited:
michaelm said:
the US with its strong institutions
Click to expand...

Yes, its institutions are strong and are the basis of a free and open democracy.
That doesn't mean to say those institutions are not open to abuse, manipulation and corruption.
That is what is occurring right now. No better example than current Democratic candidate Bloomberg who openly admitted on stage to spending $100m to buy control of Congress to control Trump.

Here is candidate Warren, detailing some more manipulations by Bloomberg

Warren goes after Bloomberg

A democracy that facilitates wealthy people to influence both sides of the house, is not a democracy.
 
Buttigieg has droped out - thankfully. I don't want to think what Trump would've done to that surname.

Klobuchar (gesundheit) has dropped out and will endorse Biden - angling for VP slot I expect (I base this on my deep understanding of Democratic politics learnt from The West Wing).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top