Hospitality sector will not be positive in anyway with the proposals, and if it rains and it will we will probably have them on the TV asking Met Eireann for the data on how it rained and why couldn't the clouds be "quarantined " for a few months.Planned opening of indoor dining on July 5th has been delayed due to Delta variant concerns.
Possibility that indoor dining will re-open initially to the fully vaccinated.
*Hospitality sector will be hoping the weather stays good to encourage people to socialise outdoors
Taoiseach: 'Safest way' to return to indoor hospitality is to limit access to those vaccinated or recovered from Covid
The reopening was planned for 5 July but is to be delayed for at least two weeks.www.thejournal.ie
looks like major controversy over this decision, discriminating against young people who are not vaccinated will not be accepted. I don't think the government will be able to hold the line on this for much longer especially based on dubious nphet modelling completely at odds with whats happening internationallyPlanned opening of indoor dining on July 5th has been delayed due to Delta variant concerns.
Possibility that indoor dining will re-open initially to the fully vaccinated.
I don't think there's any chance the authorities will actually rule that restaurants, pubs etc can open to indoor customers but only for those fully vaccinated or who have had Covid because many of these businesses will not ask people to prove they are in this cohort. It's unpoliceable.discriminating against young people who are not vaccinated will not be accepted
Exactly, but the debate is going to be hilarious.I don't think there's any chance the authorities will actually rule that restaurants, pubs etc can open to indoor customers but only for those fully vaccinated or who have had Covid because many of these businesses will not ask people to prove they are in this cohort. It's unpoliceable.
Ok just some figures versus Denmark, you are correct on deaths, but every other metric is almost identical, 1st doses (62.4 v 63.5% , and fully vaccinated (35.6%). Denmark has received about 400,000 more vaccines than us but I don't think that's a huge factor.if we compare ourselves to Denmark their numbers are declining and ours are static.That have had more cases than us but 2K fewer deaths, we are not in a good position compared to them.
The modelling team in NEPHT have access to a lot more data and nuanced interpretation than I have, but it is clear it is all based on maths, not wishful thinking, or doomsday predictions. Our health system is not robust to pandemics and we are stuck in the middle of one.
But are you not adding to their plight by not being a customer.?As someone who's fully vaccinated (pfizer) I will not support any bar or rest. that discriminates against young people who put their life's on hold for the last 15 months to protect 'auld' fellas like me. Its completely wrong and needs to be legally challenged. Hopefully the high court case next week goes in favour of the rest. organisation.
I find it strange that restaurants and pubs have no problem with discriminating against 17 year olds every day, but this to them crosses some sort of moral boundary?I don't think there's any chance the authorities will actually rule that restaurants, pubs etc can open to indoor customers but only for those fully vaccinated or who have had Covid because many of these businesses will not ask people to prove they are in this cohort. It's unpoliceable.
The vintiners and restaurant associations simply went on the attack immediately because they knew it would get media attention and deflect from their practices that as you say discriminate daily on age, appearance and any other thing they can make up.I find it strange that restaurants and pubs have no problem with discriminating against 17 year olds every day, but this to them crosses some sort of moral boundary?
Now on practical grounds, we don't have the equivalent level of docs to support the certification, so on those grounds I don't see it as workable and objectsions on that grounds are reasonable.
Otherwise, most of the howls about in the media are just embarrassing.
They discriminate and police matters like this all the time when it comes to age.
They are actually supposed to do it too when it comes to serving intoxicated people, but most seem to laugh at that idea too.
I have no objections to this on any moral grounds or grounds of fairness.
If unvaccinated people want to socialise, they can. They are younger sorts too who can stand it better
They haven't had the equivalent of a sword of damocles hanging over their heads like the highly vulnerable for the last year.
Allowing fully vaccinated indoors, and everyone else outdoors, would allow the pub or restaurant to make better use of their space, staff, kitchens etc and make more money. Which I thought was something they'd want to do. Guess not.
IF indoors dining isn't opened sooner to vaccinated people, it will be longer than that to open for everyone. I don't see who that helps.
I find it strange that restaurants and pubs have no problem with discriminating against 17 year olds every day, but this to them crosses some sort of moral boundary?
Now on practical grounds, we don't have the equivalent level of docs to support the certification, so on those grounds I don't see it as workable and objectsions on that grounds are reasonable.
Otherwise, most of the howls about in the media are just embarrassing.
They discriminate and police matters like this all the time when it comes to age.
They are actually supposed to do it too when it comes to serving intoxicated people, but most seem to laugh at that idea too.
I have no objections to this on any moral grounds or grounds of fairness.
If unvaccinated people want to socialise, they can. They are younger sorts too who can stand it better
They haven't had the equivalent of a sword of damocles hanging over their heads like the highly vulnerable for the last year.
Allowing fully vaccinated indoors, and everyone else outdoors, would allow the pub or restaurant to make better use of their space, staff, kitchens etc and make more money. Which I thought was something they'd want to do. Guess not.
IF indoors dining isn't opened sooner to vaccinated people, it will be longer than that to open for everyone. I don't see who that helps.
None of the cohorts you have listed can eat indoors today.That's pretty dismissive of the impact of something like this.
So children under 12 can't eat indoors even though there are no plans for them to be vaccinated?
A married couple or a couple on a date have to eat outside unless both people are vaccinated? A family or group of friends can't eat indoors unless they have all been vaccinated?
The plan is that this will be extended to other indoor activities like cinemas and theatres as it will be a vaccine pass. So it's not just a case of 'socialising' in a pub.
A lot of older people choose not be vaccinated for whatever reason. You and I might not understand that but vaccination is not mandatory. It is not a legal requirement. And yet we are talking about excluding these people from certain activities. I suppose we could stop them using public transport as well.
Young people who are not vaccinated will be allowed serve vaccinated people in restaurants but they won't be allowed sit with them and have a meal. NPHET's explanation for this is that they will be wearing a mask. If wearing a mask is all it takes, why has retail been closed for the past few months?
50 people can eat inside at a wedding reception without being vaccinated but 50 people can't eat in a restaurant unless they are vaccinated?
Vaccinated and non vaccinated people can eat and drink in hotel restaurants and bars and have been for weeks so no large outbreaks. But yet can't do that in a restaurant on the street.
Who is going to be fined if an unvaccinated person eats in a restaurant? The Restaurant? The Individual? What's law is in place to allow enforcement? Are Guards going to be called?
How are tourists going to prove they are vaccinated? What if they are not vaccinated but have negative PCR tests and are perfectly allowed to be here?
Young people have occasions to celebrate too but they are not welcome in pubs and restaurants until they are vaccinated. They are not welcome at family occasions that would normally be celebrated with a meal out. So people are driven to celebrate at home despite us hearing for months that household mixing is what drives the cases.
I want to sit down, have a coffee and a pastry in a coffee shop. I now need to show a vaccine cert and probably some form of ID to someone behind the counter earning minimum wage and is now expected to police this.
I could go on and on about how unworkable this is....And that's without even starting on the modelling that projects nearly 700k cases in three months on a worst case scenario. Zero mention about the probability of this scenario and yet that seems to be what the Government focused on.
And this isn't just about the economic impact on pubs and restaurants. There is a huge wider economic impact to this so it is unfair to say that this is just a problem for greedy pub and restaurant owners.
None of the cohorts you have listed can eat indoors today.
All of the cohorts you have listed can eat, socialise and celebrate outside at pubs and restaurants today.
They can also socialise indoors at hotels where they are staying, and therefore mixing with a fixed set of known individuals.
If you're talking about economic impact, you would want indoor dining to open for vaccinated people sooner;
Rather than wait longer for it to open for everyone.
People who aren't vaccinated would only be serving people indoors who are vaccinated, and vaccines are known to reduce transmission and viral load.
It's your right not take the vaccine, just as it is your right to smoke. But you can't smoke indoors in a pub or restaurant, though you can outdoors.
You want to have a drink in a pub, or buy a bottle of wine in a shop, you have to show ID if you look under 25.
Do you expect that to be policed?
How is this any different in terms of responsibility?
If you want to talk about how it could be enforced and what documentation could be used, that is a different argument and that is one for the administration to see if they can resolve, or not.
The other objections I think are self-defeating nonsense from the vintners to be honest, the same crowd who demanded the exemption to open to serve food and spent the rest of the time whinging about it.
Really and you think that this would be tolerated by the vast majority of the population?As Sunny has stated above, we as a society are heading down the road of making it a legal and mandatory requirement to get vaccinated for all in door services.. Will it be mandatory for kids between 15 and 23 to attend school and college!
That's a different debate again.@odyssey06 so you still think nphet are correct with the very pessimistic analysis, the most pessimistic on the continent of Europe. Also the fact that the Irish government are afraid to diverge from what nphet say , this is a very dangerous precedent for an unelected body.
Look at Wembley yesterday with stadium half full of joyful fans, yes they are taking risks but with the over half their population vaccinated they have decided this is worth the risk. Real normal life has to come back it cannot be postponed indefinitely because of academic and extreme scenarios that have not been risked properly anyway.
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