Did you hear the news . . . the Recession is over

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Leper

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IBEC informs us the Recession is over. Do the people I saw in the Labour Exchange queue last week know it?
 
Leper said:
IBEC informs us the Recession is over. Do the people I saw in the Labour Exchange queue last week know it?
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i dont think i would have much faith in anything IBEC says......they dont seem to have a clue!
 
I remember the 80s recession and twenty or thirty occasions on which the recession was prematurely declared over!
 
Well, if IBEC are saying the Recession is over, it must be over, but wait, they said this at 7.00am this morning. At 9.00am their spokesperson was saying that it will take 12 to 18 months more before anybody will notice.

Are they going to refund the amounts they took from their respective employees? Hmmmmmm!

But, the Recession is over, Euro takes another dive and our imports are now dearer. But, the Recession is over.

Is it?
 

A recession is a sequence of quarters where the economy contracts. If we get growth in a quarter the recession ends.

That's what a recession is.

Some people say the current recession will last for the next 10 years. But we'd need 40 consecutive quarters where each is worse than the one before it for this to happen.

The end of the recession does not mean unemployment will fall. This can take years.

And yes a weaker euro is helpful for economic growth here as our exports will benefit.
 
the recession is over.. if you want it to be

seriously, too many people doing too little work.. that's where the problem lies.

Forget about banks lending money because that's what caused the problem to begin with.

I don't understand why the government will be going after min wage workers .. they're already paying the income levy, not to mention employer prsi. I know I'd prefer to receive €10pw in taxes than to pay out €300pw in benefits.
 
tenchi-fan said:
I know I'd prefer to receive €10pw in taxes than to pay out €300pw in benefits.
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The problem is that you can't reason with some people.

There's about 100 "caring" organisations who'll whinge and wail on vincent browne, the front line, liveline, etc about how the most vulnerable in society are being hit.

First off, how much is enough? You get the feeling that if benefits were double what they were these guys would still say it's not enough.

Secondly is anyone else wondering why there are so many such organisations. Who are they all being funded by.

I'm 100% with techi fan on this one. Yes there is a shortage of jobs, but we've created the situation in this country where it's not worth working for €20k per annum and almost impossible to hire someone full-time for less than €15k per annum. Get rid of these anomalies and we'll go a long way to solving our unemployment.

Just think about it, how many countries are there where it's better off not to work for €20k per annum? It's laughable. Where will the jobs go, here where you need to pay €25k per annum to get people off benefits or somewhere that you can get motivated staff for half of that?

The cost of living has come down, we now know our standards of living were far too extravagant and not everyone has a huge mortgage. A €10k or €15k per annum job should be a reality not an impossibility.

Then you get this lazy response (from people who've somehow forgotten pre-celtic tiger Ireland) of how can someone live on €10k per annum. If you're young and have no dependants it can certainly be done. Your lifestyle won't be great, buy why should everyone be entitled to a great lifestyle??

Additionally any organisation truly worried about the unemployed should acknowledge the poverty trap created by paying relatively high benefits. It removes the incentive to make an effort to ever get on to the ladder of progression (i.e. employment)
 

Well said!
 
or you could ask why should a chosen few be entitled to a great lifestyle and others not?
 
DerKaiser said:
First off, how much is enough? You get the feeling that if benefits were double what they were these guys would still say it's not enough.
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I believe the likes of CORI use an income level of less than 15% of the average income as the poverty line. A good system to insure there are always poor if you are in the charity game. The old Irish level was could you afford a good winter coat and a pair of shoes etc.
 
starlite68 said:
i dont think i would have much faith in anything IBEC says......they dont seem to have a clue!
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Which begs the question - is it a coincidence that a former trustee and member of the national Executive Council of IBEC is now Chairman of the board at the HSE?

[broken link removed]
 
Leper said:
Are they going to refund the amounts they took from their respective employees? Hmmmmmm!

But, the Recession is over, Euro takes another dive and our imports are now dearer. But, the Recession is over.

Is it?
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Not sure what that top bit about refunds is about.

However, the last bit seems to miss the point somewhat. We're an exporting economy, part of the problem these last two years has been the strength of the Euro has made exporting more expensive and caused a drop. A weaker Euro means our products are cheaper and is better for business.

I wouldn't say the report is overly joyous, particuarly as it projects 0% growth. It's good the decline appears to have slowed, maybe even stopped, but it seemed clear enough to me that even if things do begin to grow, this wouldn't immediately translate to more jobs.



mathepac said:
Which begs the question - is it a coincidence that a former trustee and member of the national Executive Council of IBEC is now Chairman of the board at the HSE?

[broken link removed]
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And his years in the medical devices industry? Not particuarly relevant to this discussion.
 
Latrade said:
... And his years in the medical devices industry? Not particuarly relevant to this discussion.
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I agree that his time in the medical devices industry is not relevant to this discussion, which is why I didn't introduce it.
 
starlite68 said:
or you could ask why should a chosen few be entitled to a great lifestyle and others not?
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Maybe because we're all different. Some are stonger than others, some are smarter than others, Some work harder than others.

If you've had the same opportunities you can't have any complaints. If you haven't, being in receipt of even higher state benefits isn't going to motivate you to better yourself.

The 400,000 + unemployed would be far better served by circumstances encouraging employment (even if low paid) than those which discourage employment (minimum wages and benefits trap).

Some forms of socialism are so intellectually limited it's a joke, and in the end they hurt the lower paid the most. The idea that the economy is not a closed circuit and the naive belief that people do not respond to incentives seem to be beyond the grasp of many.

To put it simply, if you cannot personally benefit to a reasonable extent from your own excess effort why get off your ass? It's such a basic idea, why is it ignored by so many?
 

So in short no one is entitled to a great lifestyle but those who are smart enough and/or work hard enough may get one. Is that it?
 
mathepac said:
Which begs the question - is it a coincidence that a former trustee and member of the national Executive Council of IBEC is now Chairman of the board at the HSE?

[broken link removed]
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He looks like the right sort of person to me.
 
Purple said:
So in short no one is entitled to a great lifestyle but those who are smart enough and/or work hard enough may get one. Is that it?
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I don't see any problem in that in essence, I personally would say that everyone is entitled to a safety net and is entitled to the opportunity to work towards attaining a "great lifestyle".
 
mathepac said:
I agree that his time in the medical devices industry is not relevant to this discussion, which is why I didn't introduce it.
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I don't see why an individual involved with the HSE who has extensive experience as a director and as a board member along with extensive experience in the medical devices industry is being referenced in a topic on an economic report relating to the recession.
 
Latrade said:
I don't see any problem in that in essence, I personally would say that everyone is entitled to a safety net and is entitled to the opportunity to work towards attaining a "great lifestyle".
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+1

and another +1
 
Latrade said:
I don't see any problem in that in essence, I personally would say that everyone is entitled to a safety net and is entitled to the opportunity to work towards attaining a "great lifestyle".
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Unfortunately a lot of people in Ireland did not work towards attaining a "great lifestyle" during the boom years. Instead they bought the lifestyle on credit and rather then generating wealth via entrpreneurship or improving their skills and talents, many sat back and assumed that an unproductive resource (ie property) would never stop rising in value. I've sympathy for people in negative equity with no job, I've little sympathy for people with horrendous levels of personal debt and an inability to pay it and little or nothing to show for it
 
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