Deposit for children's party venue not refundable

HI,
We book a venue for a kids party 4.5 weeks in advance. We paid a deposit of 100 euro.
We rang back two days later to cancel but were told deposit was non-refundable. The best they could do was give voucher. We were a bit shocked since, we had given four weeks notice and we were never told deposit was non - refundable.

Any advice appreciated?

A deposit is non refundable unless mentioned otherwise.

You entered into a contract. The deposit secured the date and closed off those spaces to others.

I think they are being very fair in allowing you use it against another booking.

I probably would have the party there but only use up the 100 euros worth i certainly wouldn't be spending another penny there make sure you bring your own biscuits and tell the kids take a good look at the place because they won't be seeing it again.

galwaypat said:

I probably would have the party there but only use up the 100 euros worth i certainly wouldn't be spending another penny there make sure you bring your own biscuits and tell the kids take a good look at the place because they won't be seeing it again.

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Why? What do you think a deposit is for?

What would you do if the center decided to cancel for no reason?

The center is fully entitled to keep the deposit and provide nothing. Instead they are being fair and allowing it against another booking

But yet you think that they should be "punished" for being decent?

Well I think he gave them plenty notice.

galwaypat said:

Well I think he gave them plenty notice.

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And if the play center cancelled using that excuse, would you think that's OK too?

If someone is unsure about making a booking for something, then ask for a provisional hold for a few days. But once a deposit is paid, a contract is formed and it is to protect BOTH parties.

Anything can happen when you have kids involved very hard to plan anything in my opinion. Yes they have a buissnes to run but I think they were a bit hard on the OP on this occasion.

@Tim Robbins did you a) visit the venue or b) pay a deposit by card over the phone?

Did you get a receipt with printed T&Cs?

If you visited the venue were there any signs on display about deposits or did anyone say deposits were non-refundable?

If you used the phone to make the booking, did anyone say deposits were non-refundable? (oral contracts are enforceable contracts)

I think the venue are acting unreasonably and probably illegally by not providing you with a full refund; unreasonably as they still had four full weeks to re-sell the slot they reserved for you and illegally as Citizens Information says that while a contract was created when you paid over your deposit, it seems the terms of the contract were not made clear to you.

For the sake of a poxy (to them) €100 they're creating a PR nightmare for themselves. You will no doubt discuss your dissatisfaction with all your friends and ,maybe, just maybe use their FB / your FB / Trip Advisor / other review sites to tell your story. Yet another example of the gombeen-man mentality in Irish retail, an outfit treating their customers with contempt, just because they can.

Crazy stuff. The business has behaved decently but people seem only too keen to put the boot in.

mathepac said:

I think the venue are acting unreasonably and probably illegally by not providing you with a full refund

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They're perfectly within their rights not to refund the deposit, unless you think one party can unilaterally walk away from a binding contract? Even the link you provided confirms the same!

The link most certainly does nothing of the kind. The key condition in a consumer contract is that the "Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer." Unless the OP can confirm that the venue explained to him orally or in writing that deposits were not refundable then he is entitled to a full refund and not just a credit-note. It really is that simple, the link is crystal clear on that point.

A reasonable person would conclude that retention of the deposit also fails the fairness test A fair arrangement regarding deposits is the old-fashioned time-related sliding scale, regarding cancellation, e.g.

• 28 days or more from event, 100% refund
• 21 days from event, 75% refund
• 14 days from event 50% refund
• 7 days from event, 25% refund
• otherwise 0% refund.

Gordon Gekko said:

Crazy stuff. The business has behaved decently but people seem only too keen to put the boot in.

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The consumer information link I provided indicates otherwise. Why the anti-consumer bias?

mathepac said:

The consumer information link I provided indicates otherwise. Why the anti-consumer bias?

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No it doesn’t.

"Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer." Please show where and how the terms in the OP's contract with the venue meet the criteria of clarity and fairness. Absent specific terms, written or oral, the contract fails the tests. The link states that some undefined terms may be implicit; the link fails to state which terms are implicit but is very specific on clarity and fairness.

Again, why the anti-consumer bias in light of the evidence that the business is clearly in the wrong?

mathepac said:

The link most certainly does nothing of the kind. The key condition in a consumer contract is that the "Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer."

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It does:

If you pay a deposit to a supplier who, in return, holds an article for you and you change your mind about paying the balance the supplier may not in all these circumstances be obliged to return your deposit.

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A reservation was made and subsequently cancelled. The OP is seeking to withdraw from a contract, there is no obligation on the supplier to return the deposit.

There is nothing inherently unfair to the consumer in a deposit being non-refundable. Non-refundable deposits are the norm across most sectors. The very purpose of a deposit is to demonstrate a commitment to follow through on the contract, if deposits were to be assumed to always be refundable, why would businesses bother with the administrative overheads at all? It would only add costs for no benefit.

There is no suggestion here that the business in questions purported to offer deposit refunds in the event of a cancellation. It is only if they had done so that a refusal could be considered unfair.

A more pertinent section of the material you linked is:

When you pay a deposit for goods a contract is created between you as a consumer, and the supplier of the product or service. You should be clear at the time of paying a deposit what your obligations are (e.g. when you need to pay the balance, how much each payment is etc).

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There is nothing anti-consumer in pointing out a consumer's obligations upon entering a contract. Indeed the consumer service here is in trying to better educate consumers to ask the right questions before entering into contracts. Many of the issues we see here would never arise if more people did so.

There is nothing anti-consumer in pointing out a consumer's obligations upon entering a contract.

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I'm not suggesting for one minute that there is, but in this case that didn't happen. Explaining the T&Cs after the event is not enough.

"Terms in consumer contracts must always be fair and clear to the consumer."

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Where and when were the terms of the contract explained to the OP and where and when did the OP agree to such terms? Based on the information supplied neither of these pre-conditions to a binding consumer contract were met.

Your references all highlight contracts for the purchase of goods which might involve expenditure by the retailer to get the products into their stockroom. The only expenditure by the retailer in this case was an entry in the desk diary for the date and time in question. (If they're really high-tech they might even have stuck a PostIt on the page with the relevant information with a copy of the deposit receipt).

I suggest the OP writes to the venue requesting a cash/credit-card refund highlighting the failure by the retailer to establish a contract with the consumer where the T&Cs were clear. If it were me and the venue failed to respond favourably, I'd be perfectly willing to test this in small claims court, something the OP should not be afraid to do. Maybe the OP might first contact citizens information for an opinion that the retailer might have a case to answer http://centres.citizensinformation.ie

The other alternative is the one I suggested earlier, post honest feedback via online routes or deliver it by word of mouth locally and then let the market decide who was right and who was wrong.

I can see both sides here.... But even then I've never, ever handed over a deposit without fully expecting to lose every cent if I for any reason cannot keep my side of the bargain......

It obviously would be morally wrong if the management in any setting would seek to pocket the deposit money in the full knowledge that another party will book into the same slot shortly.... But then again in this case they did offer the deposit back as credit.....

mathepac said:

I suggest the OP writes to the venue requesting a cash/credit-card refund highlighting the failure by the retailer to establish a contract with the consumer where the T&Cs were clear. If it were me and the venue failed to respond favourably, I'd be perfectly willing to test this in small claims court, something the OP should not be afraid to do. Maybe the OP might first contact citizens information for an opinion that the retailer might have a case to answer

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You know, its this sort of mentality which effects lot of good companies...
Make them responsible for your lack of basic understanding.

Write to them, tell them you will take it further, mention how clever you are on Fb,
Make someone else pay for the fact you moved the goal posts.

They offered you something in return which they were not obliged to.. and now the clever cloggs come out and look to pick holes in something so acceptable to all. You pay a deposit, and they agree to provide you with a service. You change you mind, its not my fault, its yours. I didnt understand..

Of course they will pay you back, they dont need the hassle. One up for the man in the street...

LS400 said:

You know, its this sort of mentality which effects lot of good companies...
Make them responsible for your lack of basic understanding.

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If the company hasn't gone to any expense yet as a result of a cancelled booking, and there is ample time for them to fill the slot, then what they are doing is ensuring they have zero repeat business there from the customer.
"Once you have their money never give it back" even if you don't have to return the money doesn't meet my standard of 'good company'.

If they can say, well, when we took your booking we already ordered X, or turned down another booking for the date, fair enough.

mathepac said:

I'm not suggesting for one minute that there is, but in this case that didn't happen. Explaining the T&Cs after the event is not enough.

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The legislation is clear on this, the obligation is on the consumer to inform themselves of such terms and conditions in advance, the supplier is obliged to make such terms and conditions available, but is not obliged to go through them in details if they are not asked to do so. Lack of awareness is no defence after the fact, that has been well tested.

mathepac said:

Based on the information supplied neither of these pre-conditions to a binding consumer contract were met.

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The OP states they agreed to reserve the facility (that satisfies the agreement element), they paid a deposit (satisfying the consideration element), and both parties intended on honouring the agreement (satisfying the intention element). There are no other pre-conditions required in contract law.