Delays in rolling out vaccine

tomdublin

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In Germany, Italy, Spain, Greece, France and most other EU countries the first shipment of the vaccine arrived yesterday afternoon and vaccinations started early this morning in hospitals and nursing homes. In Ireland, the first shipment of the vaccine arrived yesterday afternoon and vaccinations are currently "scheduled" to start on Wednesday. This five day delay alone may cause needles deaths among the most vulnerable. I fear it is indicative of the delays, incompetence and institutional indifference that may lie ahead. There should be more of an outcry about it. The HSE in particular has enjoyed fairly uncritical coverage in the media throughout this pandemic.
 
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Well today was meant to be "roll out" day across Europe, some countries went yesterday for probably their own political reasons.
We are now expected to roll out ours on Tuesday.
Personally I don't see the issue here, the vaccine is here and it will be rolled out within our infrastructure and the constraints that we know are present.
As for giving the HSE a free ride, they did what was needed to be done, and did it again within the constraints that are within the system.
This narrative of complaining constantly about this and that is tiresome, even with the vaccine in circulation deaths will still happen, cases will probably still be high with peaks and troughs in figures.
Also just because the vaccine is here isn't going to make much of a difference for a long time , we will still need to restrict our contacts and practice good hygiene.
 
Won't it make a difference to those individuals who receive the vaccine today instead of next week?
And its our elderly in care homes that are top of the list, the photo ops from Europe were either the prime minister of the Czech Republic or nurses who do need it but are easily transported from A to B .
 
Well today was meant to be "roll out" day across Europe, some countries went yesterday for probably their own political reasons.
We are now expected to roll out ours on Tuesday.
Personally I don't see the issue here, the vaccine is here and it will be rolled out within our infrastructure and the constraints that we know are present.
As for giving the HSE a free ride, they did what was needed to be done, and did it again within the constraints that are within the system.
This narrative of complaining constantly about this and that is tiresome, even with the vaccine in circulation deaths will still happen, cases will probably still be high with peaks and troughs in figures.
Also just because the vaccine is here isn't going to make much of a difference for a long time , we will still need to restrict our contacts and practice good hygiene.
The other 26 EU member states didn't decide to start vaccinating this weekend for "their own political reasons" as you put it but because they think that protecting some of their elderly from contracting Covid is worth sacrificing their health service employees' long weekend. The HSE's decision to delay by five days would seem to suggest that its priorities are different. Fair enough, but why defend the indefensible?
 
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The other 26 EU member states didn't decide to start vaccinating this weekend for "their own political reasons" as you put it but because they think that protecting some of their elderly from contracting Covid is worth sacrificing their health service employees' long weekend. The HSE's decision to delay by five days would seem to suggest that its priorities are different. Fair enough, but I don't understand why anyone would want to defend this.
And yet there were no photos of elderly people getting vaccinated, and those pictures were all over the news channels .
The Czech PM got his not exactly a priority now is it.
How do you suggest we vaccinate the elderly in care homes most of which are in full lockdown?
Frankly you appear to just having a moan about the HSE who sre generally doing a good job, the vaccine isn't just simply administered there are paper trails and recording of tons of information because if something goes wrong with anything it needs to be understood.
And 2 days later isn't going to make much of a difference.
 
The vaccine is coming to everyone. I would prefer the vaccination process to be orderly and well organised rather than rushed and botched.
 
I would have thought that the cabinet should be the first to get it followed by the heads of the HSE.

We need the people in charge to be available and not to be restricted in their movements by Covid.

Of course it would not be politically popular, but it would be the right thing to do.

Brendan
Brendan the problem here is that if our cabinet took it first it would be called elitist.
When MM said he'd wait he was called a " chicken ".
The vast majority really don't care once its done properly and with checks and balances.

We can't get this wrong, and we have a plan that looks some bit equitable and just might work.

Getting it done correctly is more important in my view that just getting it done.
 
Hi Tom

A balanced report from Paul Cullen in the Irish Times

What We Got Right - What THEY Got Wrong probably deserves a devoted thread to itself. The Irish Times article is just a filler in the holiday season where the writers get some valued time off.

What We Got Right:- 1. Back in February we knew an outbreak of the coronavirus was inevitable although I remember listening to a doctor on a radio interview saying there was 50% of a chance of Ireland becoming infected. We're a resolute country and the people appeared to be prepared for a battle. We clapped the Frontline Workers from our doorsteps almost weekly. We closed our schools fully during March.

2. Restrictions were imposed and presto motor traffic was negligible. Many started to work from home. Pubs closed along with the restaurants and hairdressers etc followed suit.

3. People (well most people) watched out for each other. When "Wear the Mask" instruction came out we embraced it. We used sanitisers when entering whatever shops were allowed to remain open.

4. We watched the news daily and around 6.00pm compared figures of Covid deaths, infection, hospitalisation, Intensive Care Unit admissions etc. The R figure propped up and daily infection rate per 100,000 were noted.

5. Compared to our nearest country we were striding way ahead. The UK government appeared to be getting everything wrong while ours were getting things right.

6. Weddings were cancelled and those that went ahead did so with very limited numbers of guests. Funerals were also confined to low numbers of people attending. Church services went online.

7. We took to the new reality like our lives depended on it and they did.

8. The main thing we got right was Tony Holohan along with NPHET. I should have put this at number 1.

9. The vaccine was acquired early and the rollout happened earlier than what was expected.

10. The country compensated those who lost their jobs because of the pandemic.

What We Got Wrong:- 1. Gardaí were slow to raid pubs that remained trading. Some restaurants sold alcohol only and ignored the €9.00 substantial meal bit. Some pubs opened fully and allowed people to buy pizzas "next door" to be consumed with a load of pints in the pub. Some traders looked for "flaws" in the restrictions and drove on. These were the people who later advised that drinking alcohol in a controlled environment out performed home drinking. Many students ran their weekly/daily parties strangely called Covid Parties.

2. The Famous Golf Outing. Some had the decency to resign. Others refused to resign. Immediately, a "If-they-can-do-it-We-can-do-it" syndrome was reborn. This was exploited by many who couldn't care a whit.

3. We allowed people to travel abroad for their holidays on condition they self isolated on their return. If you can convince this writer that all of them self isolated you're some convincing person. We allowed holidaymakers into Ireland and to roam wherever they wished. We even failed to keep track of them.

4. Further restrictions were imposed during the summer, but motor traffic levels increased from the first set of restrictions. Less people worked from home. Some hairdressers/barbers continued to work from their homes.

5. Along the way Ireland placed Commercial decisions above Health decisions.

6. Days before Tony Holohan returned to work from his Special Leave he advised for immediate stricter restrictions. Mr Varadkar and Mr Martin threw Tony under the bus and informed him that he and NPHET were there in an advisory capacity only. Tony returned to work with his tail between his legs although he got some vocal support from some of us on this forum.

7. The infection rate per day was to be between 50 and 100 before restrictions were eased in the early days of December. The infections continued at 200+ daily and still the restrictions were eased. In the past few days the infections rose to near 1300 in one day alone and are still at an unacceptable level.

8. On too many occasions the government listened to too many business people most of which they should have ignored.

9. Some are saying that we are in Phase 3 of the pandemic. That's wrong we're still in the First Phase; we've just got some things wrong.
 
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Tony Holohan has been the constant even with the issues in his personal life.

The general population got on with it, but as more and more noises sprang up, more and more of our media gave them an echo chamber while ignoring them would have been a better idea.

Of course the underlying racism on all sides popped up with meat factories and fruit pickers.

Where I am the community joined together and we shared as much information we could, we shared photos of our area, and we ensured that those in our communities who needed help got it.

Personally I've changed, I feel I'm a better person and "don't worry/stress/fret " as much , got to know great volunteers and realised that the majority really want to make things better for others and I hope that sense of altruism will grow further in our communities and country.

Maybe a thread on what happens next now vaccines are here, and I doubt this is the last pandemic, might be interesting.
 
The vaccine is coming to everyone. I would prefer the vaccination process to be orderly and well organised rather than rushed and botched.
Listening to Paul Reid on the radio yesterday he was saying that we will have about 10,000 vaccines a week. Leo Varadkar said on the Miriam show that there would be hundreds of thousands a week.
If we only administer 10,000 a week, by May we will have 160,000 vaccinations completed. Even if we ramp this up as the weeks progress I cannot see our population being fully vaccinated by the end of 2021. I hope I am wrong.
 
Listening to Paul Reid on the radio yesterday he was saying that we will have about 10,000 vaccines a week
Not sure where you are getting the 10,000 per week from?

We got 10,000 and will get another 30,000 next week, and 40,000 per week thereafter.
That's just the Pfizer vaccine.

Schedules are being worked on with the other vaccines.
 
We got 10,000 and will get another 30,000 next week, and 40,000 per week thereafter.
That's just the Pfizer vaccine.
Pfizer needs two shots. Is it 40,000 of the double shots or 20,000 of the double shots? If it is 20,000 of the double shots it is going to take forever to vaccinate 5,000,000 people.
 
Pfizer needs two shots. Is it 40,000 of the double shots or 20,000 of the double shots? If it is 20,000 of the double shots it is going to take forever to vaccinate 5,000,000 people.
Well, 5 years at that rate. But that's the initial rate at which we're getting our allocation of the vaccine. There are other vaccines scheduled to become available very quickly. But it will be the back end of 2021 at the very earliest before there's a level of vaccination anywhere in Europe to achieve 'herd immunity'.
Pfizer only have capacity to produce 1.3bn doses in 2021.
 
This suggests that other countries have rushed ahead with their vaccination programme. Maybe they haven't and were prepared to go as soon as the vaccine arrived. Why weren't we prepared....we knew it was coming after all.
Basic logistics we have care homes scattered all over Ireland, many in full lockdown, Europe in general has a much better system.
The original plan was also to get the vaccine after New year's day, but political pressure by Germany and others pushed the approval forward, we have a plan and frankly I think the HSE has done alright by getting it ready for tomorrow.
 
None of the HSE's explanations for the delay make much sense to me and some seem plainly insulting (apparently implying that other countries were "rushing" and endangering their populations). In the end, what it seems to boil down to is that some of those in charge didn't seem to want to interrupt their Christmas holidays even if that meant risking additional lives. That's disturbing by itself, and it makes it all the more difficult to convince the population that they should continue to take this disease seriously. What's also worrying is that no minister had the guts to publicly challenge the HSE over this.
 
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Pfizer needs two shots. Is it 40,000 of the double shots or 20,000 of the double shots? If it is 20,000 of the double shots it is going to take forever to vaccinate 5,000,000 people.
There will be other vaccines and Biontech will also be producing 500m in 2021....once plant is fitted out etc.
In about 8 weeks from now there will be 4/5 vaccines approved.
 
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