Delays in rolling out vaccine

[odyssey06]

J&J vaccine use paused in US. Similar reports to AZ issues...

Six recipients in the United States developed a rare disorder involving blood clots within about two weeks of vaccination, officials briefed on the decision said. All six recipients were women between the ages of 18 and 48. One woman died and a second woman in Nebraska has been hospitalized in critical condition, the officials said. Nearly seven million people in the United States have received Johnson & Johnson shots so far

Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Paused After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge (Published 2021)

Federal health officials called for a halt in the use of the company’s coronavirus vaccine while they study serious illnesses that developed in six American women.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I agree that applying a break is ridiculous. No appointments should have been cancelled and people given a choice. The issue now is that vaccination targets won't be met. 180,000 due this week will not be even close. How many lives are going to be lost to covid or people get long covid because of vaccine delays. I understand caution but as I said, even if we just used the AZ vaccine to vaccinate the entire population, we would still probably be looking at less than 5 deaths from blood clots. As it stands and use of other vaccines, probably one death if even that.
The numbers don't stack up when you are looking at the risk/reward of the vaccine. I understand saying we have other vaccines available so no need to take risks but we seem to have decided to potentially delay the vaccination of the entire population to protect young people from a 1 in a 1 million chance of adverse side affect. Maybe there won't be a delay but the 15,000 today and thousands for the rest of the week seem to have just been told that we prefer the risk of you getting covid. I am struggling to see the logic here.

If it was a loved one of yours that died, you would be understandably upset and in time very angry. Statistics don't take into account human suffering and while vaccinating people is of the utmost importance every precaution must be made to ensure its safely done.

What needs to be done is for manufacturers to find out what is causing this issue.

As I said earlier we need this vaccine but we also need it to be safe.

 

[EasilyAmused]

The fatal clot risk is 1 in a million but a lot more ppl will get the vaccine than covid.

1 in 160,000.

 

[RedOnion]

1 in 160,000.

You saw the word fatal in there?

 

[EasilyAmused]

Yes.

 

[Sunny]

If it was a loved one of yours that died, you would be understandably upset and in time very angry. Statistics don't take into account human suffering and while vaccinating people is of the utmost importance every precaution must be made to ensure its safely done.

What needs to be done is for manufacturers to find out what is causing this issue.

As I said earlier we need this vaccine but we also need it to be safe.

Nobody wants to see any deaths so any suggestion that I am saying it is 'ok for anyone to die' is completely wrong. Using your distorted logic, are you saying that it acceptable that one person who has had their AZ vaccine cancelled since last weekend gets covid and dies because they weren't vaccinated in the time it takes for their vaccine to be rescheduled? Using their own figures, over 90% of people who have died with Covid have had underlying conditions. The risk of one those 15,000 people who had their appointment cancelled today of getting covid and dying from it is higher than they are from getting a fatal blood clot from the AZ vaccine.

If we want it to be safe, we stop giving vaccines until we get to the bottom of it. Otherwise you are just talking about levels of safety just like you are talking about with all medical products.

At the end of the day, the numbers that this decision are based on shows the risk to the Irish population are less than one death considering the amount of people due to get the AZ vaccine. The alternative is that they actually think the risk is actually much larger or they simply don't know. In which case, they should pause the vaccines. Otherwise, maybe you should tell them that statistics don't take into account human suffering....

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Using your distorted logic, are you saying that it acceptable that one person who has had their AZ vaccine cancelled since last weekend gets covid and dies because they weren't vaccinated in the time it takes for their vaccine to be rescheduled?

I really don't know how you could deduce that from what I typed.

 

[Sunny]

I really don't know how you could deduce that from what I typed.

Well how did you deduce that I was happy to see people die from the vaccine since you decide to tell me how I wouldn't be happy to see a loved one die? I don't want any loved one belonging to me or anyone else to die. From the vaccine or from covid. But what is the biggest risk to my loved ones with medical conditions or elderly? Going by the figures provided by the experts, it is Covid. I would have preferred by brother in law with CF to have his vaccine yesterday as planned but it was pulled. Doesn't mean I want him to die. As long as everyone is aware of the risks, I would prefer to take my chances with the vaccine as would most people I would suggest. Unless as I say, we simply don't know what the true impact is. In which case, we are still taking risks with peoples lives.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Well how did you deduce that I was happy to see people die from the vaccine since you decide to tell me how I wouldn't be happy to see a loved one die? I don't want any loved one belonging to me or anyone else to die. From the vaccine or from covid. But what is the biggest risk to my loved ones with medical conditions or elderly? Going by the figures provided by the experts, it is Covid. I would have preferred by brother in law with CF to have his vaccine yesterday as planned but it was pulled. Doesn't mean I want him to die. As long as everyone is aware of the risks, I would prefer to take my chances with the vaccine as would most people I would suggest. Unless as I say, we simply don't know what the true impact is. In which case, we are still taking risks with peoples lives.

I didn't deduce nor say anything of the kind, but you go ahead and think I did if you want if it makes you feel happier.

 

[Sunny]

If it was a loved one of yours that died, you would be understandably upset and in time very angry.

So what was the point of this then?

 

[Leo]

No one but there's still an obligation on the HSE to treat people.

But only to a point that their budget and resources permit.

 

[Purple]

No one but there's still an obligation on the HSE to treat people.

That's a bit open ended.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

So what was the point of this then?

I'll let you decipher it.

 

[Sunny]

J&J vaccine use paused in US. Similar reports to AZ issues...

Six recipients in the United States developed a rare disorder involving blood clots within about two weeks of vaccination, officials briefed on the decision said. All six recipients were women between the ages of 18 and 48. One woman died and a second woman in Nebraska has been hospitalized in critical condition, the officials said. Nearly seven million people in the United States have received Johnson & Johnson shots so far

Johnson & Johnson Vaccinations Paused After Rare Clotting Cases Emerge (Published 2021)

Federal health officials called for a halt in the use of the company’s coronavirus vaccine while they study serious illnesses that developed in six American women.

www.nytimes.com

At least the pause makes sense until they can understand it. If we are not willing to accept the risks that been made available in the AZ vaccine (1 in 1 million chance of fatality) then we might as well not accept any risk and simply pause the use of the vaccine. We now have a situation where the 60-70 age group will be given a vaccine that is not appropriate for the over 70's or the under 60's. They will rightly ask, what makes those 10 years so different. Is it just that the risks haven't been identified yet? We have young people being told to take a second dose with the same question. They have been flip flopping over this vaccine for weeks now.

 

[Sunny]

I'll let you decipher it.

Right then

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

No one but there's still an obligation on the HSE to treat people.

No there's not. If someone seeks treatment they may or may not treat them, there is no obligation.

 

[odyssey06]

NIAC is considering whether to extend the interval between the first and second Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine doses to increase the number of people who have some level of protection against Covid-19... Currently, there is a four-week gap between the first and second dose of the Pfizer vaccine in Ireland. But internationally, the gap is being extended between four and 12 weeks for Pfizer vaccines. This gives authorities time to roll out the vaccine to more people to give the some level of protection against Covid-19.

NIAC considers increasing gap between first and second Pfizer vaccine doses

The consideration is being made amid a serious disruption to Ireland’s Covid-19 vaccine rollout.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[Purple]

No one should be forced to be vaccinated or be vaccinated with a certain vaccine.

No, but if they refuse to be vaccinated then they should be required to continue to wear a mask, socially distance, stay out of pubs and restaurants and generally remain in lockdown.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Pfizer, Moderna COVID-19 vaccines highly effective after first shot in real-world use, U.S. study shows

COVID-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer Inc with BioNTech SE and Moderna Inc reduced risk of infection by 80% two weeks or more after the first of two shots, according to data from a real-world U.S. study released on Monday.

www.reuters.com

This article which is recent will give a pretty good idea of the effects of having one dose.

 

[Merowig]

No, but if they refuse to be vaccinated then they should be required to continue to wear a mask, socially distance, stay out of pubs and restaurants and generally remain in lockdown.

Difficult for private enterprises and the government to police that - and health data is still private data
It's not like people not already meet without masks etc - even in some grocery shops it started to pick up with some staff and customers not using masks.
Also when herd immunity is reached that isn't an issue. It shouldn't be even one when the risk groups are all vaccinated.